University. Do things get better?

[hanginginthere1]

Apologies if this topic has been done to death or if this post is in the wrong thread etc. I would just like some advice .
DD started uni[Russell group/Red brick, good reputation] in September. Initially, seemed to settle in well. She was looking forward to beginning the next part of her life. She wasn't and still isn't home sick. she is enjoying her course, and seemed to make friends with the others in her flat in Halls.
About 3 weeks in however, her flat mates began to change. Some of the girls[one or two of whom appear to be incredibly spoilt] became very sullen. They have begun to sulk if they don't get their own way on a night out for example. Last night one of them threw a massive tantrum over a meal. DD feels that she is stuck in the middle constantly trying to cajole, organise etc. She feels that it is all becoming hard work.
A little more worrying is the behaviour of some of the boys in the flat. DD and some of the girls are having to almost constantly deal with sexist remarks. Said in jest and usually to do with cleaning the flat, which they almost always refuse to do. They talk almost constantly about sex, in front of the girls, and seem to have little respect for how this affects others.
They refuse to tone down their language, and have caused offence on more than one occasion. Some of their behaviour is vile.There has been a suggestion made by some of the flat mates that drugs are being used in the flat, although DD hasn't witnessed this. This concerns me greatly.
So all in all, not the best of atmospheres. DD is trying really hard to make friends, but finds it difficult on her course, since there are literally hundreds of them and she rarely sees the same person twice. She is enjoying being part of one of the sports teams however.
I am really beginning to feel that we as parents pay good money for our kids to be at these unis, but that the behaviour of some of the students really does leave a lot to be desired. Is it worth it, when your child rings up and tells you some of the things that are going on.
Any advice, gladly accepted

She needs to ask about moving. There will be some students who want to swap and other who have dropped out.

She also needs to report the sexist language. And the possible drug use.

As for next year, well she can start asking around at her sports club, there is no rule that you have to share with people in the same year and if dd is one of the quieter ones a 3rd or 4th year student might be a better bet as a house mate. People in the club might be sorted but have friends on other courses looking.

Do join Empty nest thread, it's a great source of information and support!

My daughter has found the group of sudden "best friends" in her halls all started to take on their own personalities in the month following freshers and now there are some serious non-friendships going on. She doesn't have anything as bad as your daughter is putting up with, but she is much like her and trying to just live her life without the added stress. One of the non-friendships is pretty badly broken down and one of them has asked to move. In other flats, some just keep themselves to themselves - so they haven't fallen out but its a pretty frosty atmosphere to live in.

Everyone starts to talk about new property soon so she does need to see where her friendships are and start putting out feelers out. Her societies seem the best way to go. My daughter will be viewing a property next week with two others she gets on well with so far.

In the meantime, go and ask to be put on the move list which should be open now. Just feel sorry for the one who will move in!

I think they all leap in a bit getting their house for the second year too. DS got on fine with his flat mates up to Christmas, reserved a flat for the following year with them, and by the end of the first year the group had completely fractured with some major failings out.

He has, with some difficulty, extricated himself from that position, but all his other friends outside his flat had already made living arrangements for this year. He ended up taking a room in a flat with complete randomers. Remarkably, by chance he seems to have found "his people" in his new flat mates and also has good friends on his course.

You never stop worrying about them. It seemed a lot simpler in my day.

I really felt that at my DD's university they put like minded people with similar backgrounds into the same Halls. Yes some of the boys were a bit macho, but the girls gave as good as they got. It is about learning how to deal with the odd sexist comment and making sure the difficult people are kept at arms length so they do not derail everything. It is a skill students learn. My DD had lovely girls to share with but they were fully catered so there was far less hassle about clearning up kitchens, living spaces etc. You only really had your bedroom to worry about. The boys were in separate clusters.

Everyone thinks self catering is easy, but it does lead to rows over preparing food, cleaning and nicking food! Communal meals is also another way to make friends as is the large common room for those "must see" TV programmes. However, in this case, making friends with people on the course can help find peope for sharing with next year. You only need about 4 anyway, not 10! It also helped at DD's university, that a lot of the students only want to have flats in one area of the city and that accommodation becomes available in January. It concentrated the mind on who was living with who, and who was definitely not worth living with. Like minded people tended to get together for house/flat sharing. It is early days yet and there will be nicer people out there.

My DD (now just graduated) was in a similar situation at a RG uni. She was in an all girls block with a boys block next door. Initially she made friends with one group of girls from the block who were acting like 13 year old girls competing for popularity, bitching about others and attention seeking by getting with as many different boys as possible. The boys next door talked about sex non-stop too. I think it is something about a certain type of boy who gets in with the 'ladish' culture and the way to try and gain respect seems to be to prove yourself in terms of how much you know/have had sex.
DD found it very uncomfortable too and found that despite her, at the time, having a boyfriend the boys would compete for how much attention they could get from her, make jokes about her and 'rate' the girls out of 10.
She had a similar wobble a few weeks in and was really unsure who her friends were. It took until near christmas before she found a solid group (a completely different group from her original friends) and then after christmas before she found her real true friends which she is still in touch with.
By Easter she was much more stable in terms of friendships and happy.

I'd just encourage your DD to take it a week at a time, think about who she really gets on with and not be afraid to 'try out' different friendship groups until she finds who is really her type. But once she finds that group, she needs to commit and stick to it. Encourage her to keep busy. The sports team is great - as uni goes on she will find it becomes much more of a huge social aspect and source of friendships so really encourage her to stick with it.
I think a lot of it is just feeling overwhelmed - it is a huge change and will take time for her to get used to. I'm sure those around her will feel similar.

SEriously, the Student services/residence people will take sexual harassment very very seriously. She needs to contact them.

Good luck to her.

OP you sound a bit over involved.

At a RG university there will be a wide cross-section of people. In halls there's the chance to mix with people outside of your course, and not necessarily sharing your interests via societies and sports. It's a shame people expect their flatmates to be kindred spirits, just because their share a flat in halls.

their they

The things some MNers say.

At a RG university there will be a wide cross-section of people

Coz, you know, at a non-RG University there will definitely be only a narrow section of obnoxious tossers to interact with.

[Grin] IIjkk

not sure what happened then

lljkk Well at an agricultural college, for example, there may well not be a good cross section of people. Don't be chippy.

@ Alpha

I think that what I find constantly surprising, teaching at RG universities, is the level of bad manners and bad behaviour. If we assume that academic selectivity is as much socio-economic advantage as "pure" talent or merit, as educational advantage based on socio-economic advantage starts at around age 3, then we might assume that the 18 year olds who get to the very selective universities are rather more advantaged than most, and should be rather more well-behaved, sensitive & thoughtful.

Alas, this is increasingly not the case. There's a real problem with sexism and harassment of young women by their male peers. I find it rather despicable, when it comes from young men with every advantage in life. They should be bloody pleased for their luck, and behave and work in order to deserve it for their own efforts rather than the luck of their birth.

UpTheChimney - that sounds terrible. It's not something I recognise as being prevalent. I see respectful relationships between the sexes. The old easy sexism of my youth just isn't there. Which is superb.

It was the OP who mentioned RG.

Redbricks are Bristol, Manchester, Sheffield, Birmingham, Leeds, & Liverpool. I know parents of current students at all of those universities bar Liverpool and I actually don't know anyone who isn't happy apart from one lad who wishes he had chosen a more maths economics course (but he's happy with his university and the halls etc). But otherwise they seem to be doing fine. Including my own sons (one of whom in now in his fourth year at one of those universities).

FWIW, I think OP was wrong to tie how easy her DD finds living with current flatmates to the kind of Uni she attends. I wouldn't tie any sort of social graces to type of Uni, either. The bottom line is that living with other people is messy. And many people go to Uni (any kind of Uni) expecting a raging & self-centred social life. More mature (mentally, not necessarily physically) students often have to work harder to find like-minded friends. But they shouldn't give up easily and assume that they won't find those people. They are usually out there.

I have loads of good friends who I would soon come to loathe if we had to share living space.

It's absolutely fine to talk to the accommodation office and ask to be moved to another flat if you don't like the atmosphere with your current flatmates. Lots of students move around in halls.

It's not something I recognise as being prevalent. I see respectful relationships between the sexes

I do too, in my seminars and tutorials. But we also hear other stories: of sexist lad behaviour in night clubs of quite nasty proportions: misogyny actually.

upthe is right. It is well documented. There was a documentary by Kirsty Wark a while ago looking into the misogyny of (amongst other groups) students, and it was very striking.

It's absolutely not ok, and not something anyone should feel they have to learn to deal with, as opposed to reporting.

How is she being sexually harassed?
the boys are making joking comments about the girls doing the cleaning, and talking about sex with teh other boys in their own home? Nothing is being directed at the girls (sofar as the OP had mentioned)

That's sexual harassment, particularly if OP's DD finds it makes her uncomfortable, fearful or requires her to change her normal routine & habits to avoid the young men.

Young men need to learn that such disrespectful behaviour sexist jokes backed up by sexist behaviour is completely unacceptable. If they don't learn this in their own familial homes, I despair, I really do.

Tell her to go to student support and asked to get moved.
It really isn't that difficult to swap students between flats and it was common place even in my day....(25years ago!).
Hope she is more settled in her new place.

I have loads of good friends who I would soon come to loathe if we had to share living space.
This ^^
should be repeated to every new student. In fact I have friends who I love dearly but wouldn't want to spend a whole week with let alone live together.
A great degree of respect and tolerance is required for people to live amicably together. Clearly these boys are at the very least disrespectful. What has gone wrong that they think this kind of behaviour is ok? Who failed to teach them manners and decency?
Having said that I do dislike the generalisation that all young men are like that.