Coventry anyone?

[stonecircle]

Best for university experience in the 2015 Good University Guide (42nd last year!)

Sadly DS is on a field trip on the next open day but I'm thinking it might be worth a look. Anyone know anything about it?

MillyMollyMama - sorry but your attitude stinks. Not everyone does get AAA. But a University education can still be highly beneficial even crucial for some careers, and still offers a chance for self-development.

I also know people who have gone from the "newer" universities to Doctorates at Oxbridge.
They can even get jobs with the top employers.

Student support is a good and crucial aspect for some students. Just as one school isn't best for everyone, so we should be looking for the best University for our DC.

Employers will rightly distinguish between a 2:1 in history from Cambridge, a 2:1 in history from York and a 2:1 in history from York St John

Why is it right that they distinguish?

This means RG are slightly expanding student numbers in many subjects, and many are being generous about dropped grades.

They can do this most easily in subjects that do not have limiting factors. So, for example, sciences are restricted by laboratory space. Humanities, for example Human Geography, do not have this problem.

It could, of course, raise a whole new problem: RG are not exactly noted for their contact hours and some students are already questioning what they are getting for their £9,000 tuition fee. A worsening student/staff ratio may add fuel to the fire.

I said this would be controversial and I see it is.

Educational levels differ between different universities and a 2:1 in any given subject is not completely equivalent, even if in principle it should be. In my field (which is not history) the Oxbridge courses contain at least 25% more material than those at most other universities and the exam papers are significantly harder. There are considerable variations between non-Oxbridge universities.

Of course somebody with a degree from a new university may go on to a doctorate at Cambridge or a top graduate position. All employers and admissions tutors for graduate degrees should be considering applications carefully and they shouldn't make cuts based on undergraduate institution. Unfortunately, in reality, the latter is sometimes used for sifting applications. So before signing up to fees of 9k per year isn't it reasonable to look into what fraction of graduates from a given course actually get top graduate positions and take this account when choosing universities?

Many science and engineering courses are not yet running at maximal lab capacity. Some universities are looking into lengthening the teaching day, to get more teaching hours from any given lab.

Departments with significantly increased student numbers are mostly being allowed to recruit new staff, thus maintaining their staff/student ratio.

I don't know of a case where increasing the numbers of students has led to decreased contact hours: usually students are told up front what contact hours to expect and departments don't go back on this.

So before signing up to fees of 9k per year isn't it reasonable to look into what fraction of graduates from a given course actually get top graduate positions and take this account when choosing universities?

Maybe, but you are assuming that all that ug want is 'top graduate positions'. It all depends what your motivating factor is. For example, I know someone who only looked at coastal Universities because of her sailing hobby.

Is there a league table showing 'top graduate positions' btw? There are statistics for 'employment within six months' but that could easily be any paid position, not necessarily graduate-level.

Cambridge University used to pay science technicians more if they had a HND from a Polytechnic than if they had a Degree (including if from Cambridge).
My Science degree (from a RG, but one often sneered at on MN) was treated more favourably than one in the same subject from other Universities including Oxbridge, because it had a specialism which others often didn't teach at all; well except a lot of the ex-Poly's.

You can't generalise that much. And its not just the Sciences, Music can be a totally different subject at say Birmingham and York.

You might be surprised to see which institutions have the highest rate of graduates in employment or further study after graduation (The Royal Academy of Music I believe). Although if these statistics become more highly known and used, then there are ways they can be manipulated, as I believe happens in the US.

BTW as an ex-science student I would be very interested in institutions considering lengthening the day in order to cram in more students - and not for good reasons.

I know someone who only looked at coastal Universities because of her sailing hobby

Made me laugh Senua - there were loads of golfers at my university!

Obviously I want the best for my ds but I'm slightly cynical about whether what is perceived as the best is actually the best. Probably a result of going to a highly respected uni myself where the teaching and (traditional) course was not brilliant and also after years of seeing just how badly the grammar school system can let kids down.

So, leaving aside the big names, is it really the case that there is no uniform standard for degrees and that a student who gets a 2.1 at Cardiff, since we're using that example, could have got a first at Coventry or Oxford Brookes?

I've taught at Cambridge in the past, currently teach at an RG uni. My DH teaches the same subject at a post-92 uni. The difference in standard among students and in what's demanded of them/how they're examined is very striking, esp between the 2 RG on the one hand and the post-92 on the other.

External examiners do try and maintain standards across the discipline but they can't actually change marks (in my uni) any more.

There is a system regulating the standards for degrees. In practice this does not guarantee uniformity - the only way to have complete uniformity would be for everybody to teach the same curriculum and use the same assessment for courses with the same UCAS code, but this would be ridiculous on many grounds. Perhaps other academics can comment on whether they feel standards are reasonably uniform in their fields or not.

Data in league tables about graduate employment indeed gives little information about the type of employment. Departments which have nothing to hide (which includes mine) will show information on open days and interview days about where our graduates go. Our alumni are also happy to be contacted by students.

Do you mean the external examiner system uilen?

Yes, I mostly meant external examiners. (I posted before seeing your post.)

Also module descriptions should in principle be consistent with the level they are taught at - level 4/1st year, level 5/2nd year etc etc. However in my experience level 7 (MMath/MEng) at RG is more like level 6 (third year undergraduate) at Oxbridge. This is usually obvious to experts from module descriptions but is not queried during accreditation procedures.

I'm writing this post as a 6th form tutor and not the mother of a DS at Coventry...

Things do go wrong quite frequently, and very wrong for more students than you would imagine. At my school we would never advice a student to have an insurance with the same offer as the firm, but to have an insurance that is somewhere they would want to attend, but with a lower offer.

The majority of students are not predicted top grades and therefore the constant diminishing of universities that aren't the supposedly the best i.e. R.G. is elitism at its worst. With more and more of the population now having a degree, it's proving to be more and more of a requirement for most career paths. It's not all about getting ointo the top law firms, banking institutions.

The post-92 unis are carving themselves a lucrative market and providing an education that benefits those who can't get AAA but want to learn, want a degree, may need extra support.

Research is not the golden nugget that means it the only uni to go to. Many non RG are leading specialists in new areas such as automotive design for example

Apologies again for my English - this phone is a pain

As a sixth form tutor, has your advice about insurance offers changed at all in the last two years, following the relaxation of number caps? (It is now much more likely for students to be accepted on courses with dropped grades.)

Suppose a student who is in line to get AAA wants to do a subject which is available at a wide range of universities. What would be the factors that would make you advise that student to consider BBC/BCC offer universities? I.e. what do you think they might be offering that the universities with higher entrance grades (for the same subject) aren't?

Oxford Brookes attracts a different type of student to Coventry and it has all the advantages of Oxford and excellent links to London. Senua has given a brilliant run down of aiming reasonably high, stonecircle. Your DS really does not need to go lower than Russell Group. They are a better bet for getting a job because employers are discerning.

Glad the UCAS website gives Cardiff info. Why their web site is so bad is a mystery! I am surprised he is not interested in the delights of one of the Northern cities though. Leeds is AAA but would also be worth a look.

uilen to answer your question, no. We have had no indication from ucas/unis to change our advice and this year we saw students who only dropped one grade and not been accepted so our advice stays the same, insuring on lower grades at a uni you would be happy attending.

milly read my latest post - RG is not the only unis worth considering for very good reasons. Entry requirements by the way aren't a good indication of quality uni

My son is a cov student did 2 years then spent last year on the Erasmus programme at lund just went back to cov for his final year he's doing history staff are very supportive he has as & idd his a level grades were aaa yes the city is not the prettiest of places but he & all his friends love it

I totally get that RG are not the only universities. However the OP's DS wants to do Geography not Automotive Engineering. This makes a huge difference. I completely agree that many universities offer superb courses that are quite specialised and brilliant for some people. However, if you are looking at subjects offered at nearly every university and you are predicted to get AAB, then surely you should look at the best courses you can get into? There is huge competition in the jobs market because there are so many students who will have AAA and have gone to the universities that require AAA. Employers know the value of degrees and aiming low in Geography is not a good idea. I don't think my attitude stinks because I am reflecting what a lot of employers will think about a Geography degree from a university which does not even require BBB.

I get what you are saying Milly, and Ds does want to do Geography. However, he's quite intrigued by some of the related courses Coventry has to offer like disaster management, geography and natural hazards and energy management (renewable energy is a particular area of interest).

I think it may be as much about finding a course which excites him as going to a well-respected university. If he decides to put Coventry as his insurance knowing that, if he doesn't get his predicted grades, he's got something interesting to fall back on then I don't think that would be a bad thing.

I agree stonecircle. It sounds like a good thing but don't forget that renewable energy is often under the umbrella of engineering, not geography, so this area of work could be competitive. Does sound interesting though.