How do universities allocate places?

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Just that really. I'm expecting ds to be predicted AAB for A2 and that set me wondering about his chances of getting a place at a university with a typical offer of AAB.

Do they say, for example, we've got 500 applications for 100 places so we will take the 100 applicants with the highest predictions? Do they say we'll look at the 200 with the highest predictions and offer places to the 100 with the best personal statements? Do they offer places on a first come first served basis to those applying with predictions of AAB and higher, provided they have a good personal statement?

Or do they all have their own ways of doing things? Anybody know?

Does every thread about uni admissions have to turn into a medicine & "oxbridge thread"?

In this thread there are mentions of
Warwick 25x
Oxford 12x
"Oxbridge" 15x
Cambridge 16x
Imperial 10x
lse 8x
Durham 6x
Bristol, ucl 3x
Leicester 2x
Leeds 1x

York, Exeter, Loughborough, Sheffield, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen, Manchester, Birmingham, Bradford, Hull, QUB, Swansea, Southampton, Abserwystwyth, Cardiff, Nottingham, Keele, Newcastle-UT, Lancaster, UEA, Reading... 0x

Well my dd2 is applying to York if that helps!

Try the Year 13 thread as well ljkk......we have been talking about loads of the universities on your list on that thread.

Again not fair.

1. it is close to the Oxbridge deadline so expect more traffic. As with secondary education. 11+ coming up so expect lots of Tiffin threads.

1. The thread is a conversation. I, and others, contributed our experience. Last year was tough, taking far longer and far more competitive than we had expected. I think we are all very lucky that others, such as UptheChimney are willing to contribute from "the other side".

1. Warwick got mentioned several times because I quoted what had been said at the open day I attended and you provided different information suggesting a very different picture, eg the conversation veered onto a point of detail. Had the thread veered onto detail about, say Bournemouth University's admissions policies, I would not have minded.

1. I think as a summary it would be fair to say that there are some Universities/courses which are selecting and others which are likely to accept if you are predicted the grade requirements. If applying for the latter, chill and focus on getting the grades needed. If the former, find out what is looked for over and above the grades (work experience, MAT, STEP, interview performance etc) and make sure your application is the best it can be. Your PS will be read closely and may well prove to the the deciding factor.

I for one am immensely grateful for the info people have been kind enough to share on this thread! It has really helped us, as we were initially unaware about eh Cantab/STEP results not available till after offers made etc - and this has helped DS to think more carefully about choices. The school will know all this stuff and presumably discuss with DS , but it really helps to have the benefit of people's experience and, yes, opinions too!

Needmoresleep your post made me laugh (in a nice way!) -- if only any academic could answer your questions, but although we're clever, were not clairvoyant! (unfortunately, otherwise I'd win the lottery )

And steppemum in essence, yes it is that simple. And in essence, no it's not! helpful

The complications are not always or only or predominantly at the university end. They are at the pupil/applicant end. And in this thread, at the parent end.

I talk to enough parents who are increasingly anxious (and that's a polite way of putting it in dealing with a small minority of parents) that their children go to a "good" university, get a "good" degree, etc etc. I think it's a deep worry about social mobility and definitions of achievement & success. As parents, I think we need to be very very careful that we don't project our own ambitions and our own self-regard onto our DC's "success" as we define it. I've learnt this in several ways, and I now consciously step back. I've seen to many of "that" kind of parent to want to be one myself.

So Needmoresleep many of your questions are not ones any university person can answer, because they are about other people's achievements ie your child's and other children. And your DCs' ambitions and your own.

I know it's easy to say, but I find it is true from experience of watching 2 generations of undergrads: Most people get where they need to be, but most people will not take the route they expect to get there.

I've just been at an industry thing where I caught up with some former students, who are doing really well, but none of them has got there in a straight line.

Or as my DS has said (he knows it winds me up) "Chillax"

Good idea UptheChimney. I always stress about my first child & relax after that, once I know I have absolutely no influence (either with my children or the system).

Needmoresleep Re your point 4, how so you know if the Unuversity/course is selecting or not?

Hi, I hesitated before replying as I am no expert, simply someone whose son went through it last year. Our experience last year was a lot of universities seemed to require variations on A*AA for economics. I assume this is similar for other popular degrees like law.

To get a rough idea of which are expecting more and which are likely to be happy with predictions meeting the standard offer, and then perhaps allowing the odd missed grade, I would:

1. Look at the Universities own literature and listen to what they say at open day. If they are very oversubscribed they will say so. They may also list the number of applications to places.

1. Look at the Complete University Guide and the average entry standards for various degrees. UCAS tariff points for A*AA is 380, with people presumably picking up extra points for EPQs or subjects taken to AS. However an average tariff of over, say, 550, suggests that most candidates are offering much more than the minimum. For some popular subjects the tables show a distinct drop off between the top 4 or 5 Universities and others.

1. Look at the Student Room thread used by applicants in the previous year. For example the LSE economics thread stretches to 171 pages. Then add a reasonable pinch of salt. MN is not the only place where stealth boasting happens. Even so it will give you an idea of the process and where you might expect to be kept waiting.

When considering which popular Universities to select, other than the obvious things like whether it is somewhere you might live for three years, look at:

1. Variations within the standard offer, eg for economics Bristol was looking for a specific mark in Maths C3, some require an A or A* in maths, some have big study abroad programmes and may like languages.

1. Contextualisation. This year for economics Bristol were giving out relatively low contextualised offers. London colleges seem to be concerned about their inability to attract state educated students from outside London. If you are likely to be considered educationally disadvantaged I would speak to the various admissions offices to understand more about their likely approach and to gain advice on what you might include on your application.

1. If meeting the published grade requirement may not be enough, work hard on your personal statement. Get as much informed advice as you can.

1. Consider your approach. If you don't get an offer from one of your preferred Universities, but then get the grades, would you want to go to a fall back. An alternative if you are sure of meeting the standard offer, is to apply only to very competitive Universities and see who offers, with a fall back of working very hard for A2s and reapplying during a gap year. My understanding is that it is easier with actual rather than predicted grades.

My experience/observation. Others are welcome to contribute or disagree. As others have said, only a minority of Universities/courses are very competitive. That said my impression is that the levels of competition for some non-Oxbridge courses have crept up significantly in recent years catching some school and applicants on the hop.

And read this too! Some of the required grades in a university prospectus turn out to be true, but others do not. It is not an exact science.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29141762

how so you know if the Unuversity/course is selecting or not

I have to say, working as an academic for 20 odd years man & boy, I've never come across the "recruiting or selecting" university distinction. I've only encountered it here on MN.

Whether or not degree programmes "relax" grades can vary across years in the same degree, across different degrees in the same university, and so on.

It isn't an exact science, but it doesn't mean we do it randomly, or not in accordance with published guidelines established by our institutions, HEFCE, and UCAS. We use our professional expertise and judgement to make judgements.

I think the pressure I've noted in this thread, for example, is from parents wanting a "How to get into the "best" degrees" in black & white. It doesn't work like that, but it doesn't mean it's random or corrupt.

I've used the terms recruiting and selecting a lot professionally! At least in the past 5 or so years. (I'm not an academic though.)

Well, I'm learning!

For me at one place, it was the discussions about whether we went into Clearing or not. The one time we did, everyone in the discipline did. A colleague at another place moaned at me "If you guys are going into Clearing, what hope is there for the rest of us?" But I've only taken us into clearing once. And we only needed 2 or 3 students, and admitted a couple of great kids.

I wish we could work out a way of post-qualification admissions ...

We use recruiting and selecting at our university, although I have to say I have only used them as adjectives since we stopped doing one and started doing the other.

Post qualification admissions is the way to go, it is the bast thing about having predominantly Scottish students on our course. As a parent it is great to know that there is at least one programme that she wants to do that will definitely admit her.

'Goodness Upthechimney that was very harsh!' UpTheChimney - I'm genuinely interested, why are your posts on here so snipey?

Needmoresleep thanks for such a detailed reply.
Getting the impression from open days that most of the courses at the level DD is looking have around 6 applicants per place, so with everyone applying to 5, slightly oversubscribed. Also seems that most with predictions of typical offer will get offer, and hints that some slightly below may also.

Quite difficult for DD to guage much on UCAS points, as for Music most will have graded exams. ABB plus Grade 8 merit is 390 points.
Incudentally, her Saturday music school often have quite a few applying for medicine

Although not applying at the highest end, DD certainly wants to adopt a strategy similar to your 4). Only wants to apply slightly above or possibly on where her predictions are likely to be, and work her socks off this year. Very young for her year, so won't be the end of the world if she had to wait a year.

As for disadvantaged, not by postcode or school (state comp in affluent area), only thing possibly worth mentioning is first generation to go to Uni.

Will certainly get her to check out student room.

Meant to say also, if a course is regularly in clearing at the same grade as typical offer, does that mean they are less likely to take offer holders that drop a grade?