Question about UCAS applications

[Fairyfellowsmasterstroke]

DD2 is looking at going to univ in Sept 2015.

She is planning on completing her personal statement and creating her univ "shortlist" over the summer with the intent on applying, via UCAS, as soon as it opens in September. Her shortlist will be done by reading prospectus' and online research. At this point she will have only attended 1 open day.

Several of the univs that she has expressed an interest in are holding their open days in October so I suggested that she hang onto her application until she'd been for a few visits.

BUT I then began to ponder on the following:-

If a univ has, for example, 150 places on a course and UCAS doesn't close until mid January 2015 surely, as time goes on, the course may have filled up so people who submit applications in the later months (Nov/Dec or January) may be turned down as the univ may have already made it's offers (ie 150 places, 150 un/conditional offers made by the end of October!).

Does this make sense to people (I don't think I'm explaining it very well!!!).

WWYD - Submit in September hoping that there are more vacant places on the course so there's a higher chance of an offer OR wait until later in the year when you've "done" the open days and are more certain of your shortlist??

All advice welcome.

I thought maths and physics were really popular now. Friends of my son struggled to get places at good unis. If you want to do maths or physics you're maybe fussier about where you do it than some subjects though as it's not a degree you do to fill time. Some of the engineering courses seemed similar with many students aiming for the same handful of unis.

Physics is far more popular than it was even 5 years ago, but what uiler123 said (specifically "Many university courses now recruit rather than select i.e. they offer to all or almost all students who have the right predicted grades." and "Courses that recruit can include many at "top" universities in "less popular" subjects - e.g. physics and maths." ) is correct. [I'm a physicist at a Russell Group university.]

Many RG universities are recruiting rather than selecting in maths and physics. Engineering is a slightly different story. If a student lists only Cambridge, Warwick, Durham, Imperial and Bath for maths then they are choosing five places which all select - but most other RG group universities are recruiting at AAA* or AAA for maths, so they would almost certainly get offers. A sensible choice for a student would be to list at least one recruiting university in their UCAS options.

Thank you molio and others you're very kind! I might sound stern at times, but that's because I worry when I see misinformation and almost a bit of hysteria certainly misapprehension -- about university admissions.

Admissions is one of our most important strategic tasks in a university. We don't do it haphazardly or unprofessionally. And we really do care: I think I persist in these threads because I'm a natural pedagogue bossy

The difficulty with some other advice given on these threads is that those working at more middling unis generalise about admissions, and insist that their way of doing things is universal (which it isn't), so obviously that's misleading, confusing and unhelpful

I wouldn't necessarily say that my advice isn't universal either, and what we do in my current department is a bit different from other places I've worked in, and what we do in my discipline is different from other disciplines. I get the impression that, for example, creamteas works at somewhere that some MNers may think is not a "top" university whatever that means but her [ ?] advice is always absolutely excellent I'm just her naughty twin--

But there are some things that are universal: to go back to the OP's question, the way we stagger offers is one of them.

Of course, the whole system is maybe skewed a little bit by the early dates required for Oxford & Cambridge applications, naughty us!

UTC - is it better to apply before the Oxbridge deadline (even if not applying to Oxbridge) to make unis think the applicant has applied there, thus prompting the other unis to make offers in order to 'poach' or tempt the applicant to choose them?

This was suggested to me by somebody who did that and I was just wondering what your thoughts might be...

Oh dear, speaking for myself, I really really don't have the time, inclination, or mental energy to think like that. Why would I? If the grade predictions are where they need to be, the personal statement is OK, then that's what I'm looking for.

This is what I mean by near-hysteria. or misinformation. It's not a game.

Thanks, that's what struck me too - it's gameplaying.

Engineering this year early december applicstion
Southampton - offer within a week
Bristol - rejection in jan but kept application until sfter clising date as felt other courses may be better fit. Interview for different course in march ad offer made within few day
Leeds rejection in january
Durham rejection in march
Loughborough was last to reply.

Our impression based on last year's application is that demand for some, mainly quantitative and semi-vocational, courses at world ranked Universities is shooting up. Physics, NatSci, Engineering, Computer Science, some of the more quantitative economics courses, as well as medicine and medical related courses, etc.

I understand that the increase in demand as seen in the UK is nothing like the avalanche of applications that top ranked US are now receiving, but assume that the cause is much the same. Our DC are growing up into a tough, unpredictable and very international world. People are more willing to look beyond their own borders and better informed about the options available and how they are perceived by potential employers.

I accept not all courses select. DS received a quick offer from his fifth choice, a well-regarded RG University. However some do, and are having to make decisions on very small differences in Personal Statements etc.

The anxiety then, is what counts. Is going to the open day the small thing that gets you an offer when 9 out of 10 will be rejected? Have some course changed track and started to value those who offer essay subjects against those with average maths UMS in the high 90s. Does Warwick like those who offer languages because of its commitment to Erasmus. Will attending public lectures, summer schools, or Open Days be that extra thing that gets you preferred over others. State school or old tie private? Duke of Edinburgh silver and a record of kindness to small animals?

Who knows. Maybe they held onto a huge heap of qualified applications, then in March opened a case of beer, and started tossing coins.

I personally think some of these courses should also have earlier deadlines. A wait from late September to late March is simply too long, and too hard for a student trying to prepare for A2s.

Input from admissions tutors like UTC and Creamteas was very useful. I agree everyone has their own perspective and experience, but great that people with admissions experience have been kind enough to contribute.

Been reading the thread with great interest.
Curious about the 'recruiting' as opposed to 'selecting' comments.
Was searching recently On courses in which university, came across sone (at RG Unis) showing 100% offer rate - can this be accurate?

Until relatively recently my department offered to all candidates with the appropriate qualifications or predictions, in other words we were recruiting. This changed dramatically when we significantly overshot our target a few years ago, very unexpectedly. It became clear part of the way through the cycle that this would happen, but because we had made offers we had to continue to do so on the same criteria. So we had a very big class that year. Now we select rather than recruiting. Other departments have moved in the opposite direction as they lose popularity or capacity increases.

UpTheChimney I'm sure all admissions tutors on these threads are attempting to be helpful but the fact is that there is so much variation in admissions policies and processes between different unis and even courses within unis that it's important for everyone to recognise that no advice is likely to be universally valid except on a very basic level. What can be quite irritating is for posters to claim that, 'as an admissions tutor', they have all the answers for all applicants everywhere. The process is far more fluid and multi layered than that.