DDs preferred choice not a Russell Group Uni

[RedRoses1111]

Hello

Dd is my one and only so this is all new to me. She is 17 and about to sit AS levels next month.

She wants to study English and Film and went to a University Fair today. She has returned laden with prospectuses but her favourite so far is the University of East Anglia which is not a Russell Group Uni. Other choices which do an English and Film course are Southampton, Kings, Exeter and Royal Holloway.

I read so much about the choice of Uni is just as important as the course and that employers won't even look at job applications unless they are from someone who went to a Russell Group Uni.

So, those of you who are more experienced or knowledgable about this, should she be discouraged from looking at non RG unis at this stage?

Many thanks for any insight/knowledge/advice you can offer.

UEA is a long standing (just had it's 50 year anniversary) second tier university (ie not Russell Group but leading playing the recently disbanded 1994 group). It is world leading in some departments (environmental science, biology, creative writing), and pretty good in most of the others. It has expanded a lot over the last 10-20 years - lots of new buildings, lots of accommodation, new departments (particularly the medical ones). It has a very active bio tech science park attached to it.

It consistently ranks high in student satisfaction surveys. It is ethnically diverse, very safe and with a beautiful campus. Norwich itself is a vibrant and historic city. Lots of people stay here after graduating.

The only problem with UEA is getting there (physically) - it is a long way from anywhere !

Bottom line, if she likes the course then UEA is as good a place as anywhere and far better than many.

What everyone else has said about the English etc degrees at UAE. And also, Norwich is a lovely city - loads going on, big enough to feel like a city, small enough to get to knowing well.

Also, as a senior exec in the media industry, I rarely register which university an applicant attended. It simply isn't relevant - the only time I think 'ok, they know something about the industry' is if they went to either Bournmouth or Ravensbourne (and these would have been more technical / production courses). However, it really is only if someone is applying for an entry level job (Runner, Logger and the like). After that, it is purely down to their credits.

Beck The RAE doesn't matter. Not to employers. :) I'm literally the only person in my firm, globally, who has ever even heard of it and the only reason I have is that I'm married to an academic.

Beck you're wrong about one of the categories of city firms you mentioned there. Accountancy firms definitely don't look at either the RAE or 'RG first' as a matter of course. Mind you accountancy firms won't be looking for English graduates either, so it's cold comfort for the OP. There are RG universities that accountancy firms wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Whereas, before they joined the RG, York and Exeter were two of the most highly regarded places from which to recruit. Joining the RG hasn't damaged their credibility - but it hasn't enhanced it either.

REF now, not RAE. Not that the minions like me understand the difference.

I really don't agree that employers automatically discard non-rg candidates. My degree isn't rg, and I've never had the problem. Also, when I've recruited I've looked at the skill set not the university.

In my field (marketing /creative media), many many hugely talented people over a certain age have (shock! Horror!!) degrees from ex Polys. I now work in HE and I've noticed several rg group unis now offering the kind of communications / creative courses that ex polys only seemed to offer.

My point is: rg isn't the be all and end all, and who knows how courses will be regarded in the future. Take the uni and the course on its own merits and if its a great fit, go for it!

Didn't even know what RG was until I joined mn.
Niece did media/theatre degree at Royal Holloway and thought it was good.
Scottish conservatoire is very selective- good luck with that one.

Thanks again everyone, I'm really glad I posted.

dementedma - does you're niece work in the industry now?

SinglePringle - any other advice you can offer with breaking into the industry as a whole?

notjustamummythankyou - do you mind me asking which degree you have and what other degrees/qualifications you see regularly in your marketing/creative media field?

I also worry whether she should just do a straight English Literature degree or a degree in film/TV and not spread herself across the two in one degree?

Of course she hasn't even sat her AS levels yet so may not even end up going to Uni! Her mock results were 3 As and 1 B but we would never take anything for granted.

She has returned laden with prospectuses but her favourite so far is the University of East Anglia which is not a Russell Group Uni. Other choices which do an English and Film course are Southampton, Kings, Exeter and Royal Holloway

ALL of those are excellent courses. I'm in that broad field at an RG university, and I'd be happy if a child of mine wanted to study in any of those departments.

Right, now I've RTFT!

I also worry whether she should just do a straight English Literature degree or a degree in film/TV and not spread herself across the two in one degree?

In this case, a single Hons in English would be fine. Film Studies at UEA is excellent but it'll be theoretical. She's unlikely to get her hands on a camera or editing suite in her course.

But this ambition is one which is served by extra-curricular activity. She needs to start getting pro-active now -- does she like writing even when she doesn't have to do t for assessment or course work?

At university she needs to get involved with the student newspaper, and the student television or radio stations. She needs to keep a look out for intern/work placement opportunities as part of her course or over the summers.

If she really wants this sort of career, she can't be passive or entitled. She needs to realise that a degree will be a good thing, but in the workplace she'll start at the bottom, in a job that is unlikely to be "graduate" until a few years in.

In a lot of arts-based careers, the degree doesn't get you extra points at the start, but will do so a few years in. It's still necessary, but not in the way that it might be for a vocational degree such as medicine.

RG are the big guns in research. Not necessarily good at teaching

Sorry but in the arts & humanities, this is a lazy cliché. In every research-intensive university I've worked in, the teaching is also excellent: challenging, research-informed, and stimulating students to do better than they think they can.

People may generally dismiss the importance of research, but really -- wouldn't you like to be taught (or have your DCs taught) by the people who are writing the books, making the art, films whatever, that you're studying?

That's what "research-intensive" or "research-led" teaching means.

HercShipwright - Accountancy firms will happily take English graduates and there aren't RG universities that they wouldn't touch with a bargepole. They tend to have degree class requirements, an A level points requirement and a minimum maths GCSE requirement.

Regarding the obsession with RG. Dd3 in year 11 is bombarded every month by her mentor in the SMT about her AS choices because at the moment she wants to do more than one 'non-facilitating' subjects and they want her to re-consider! Aaargh! She wants to do a Drama/Film Management type of degree and instead of helping her with her choices they just refer to the 'facilitating' subjects and cluck their disapproval. I feel sorry for the school students of today, I really do. Non-RG unis do not mean failure in any sense of the word.

Two of the most intelligent people I know went to York, incidentally - it's a wonderful university and incredibly well reputed, but for English UEA is in a class consisting of itself and Cambridge, I'd say. Obviously it's only my opinion.

I'm interested in what forms your opinion? You do know that the league tables are based on data that are up to 2 years old? And that most league tables are put together by rival newspapers, and that they manipulate these data?

If you want stuff at the source, you need to go to

HESA
HEFCE
REF
RCUK
NSS

and collate data.

Or not join in in the ranking of "these two are the best and nothing else touches them." It's fairly meaningless. There are different groupings of universities, but most of all, it's about the fit of individual to course, campus, town, and so on ...

breath Not IME. Sorry. And I really AM sorry because one of my biggest bugbears is the inability of many of the people coming into the profession now to write effectively. :(

UptheChimney - thanks for that advice. She has work experience coming up arranged through sixth form which will be good for her. She's also awaiting to hear about a possible work experience placement in a film studio in the summer, this one she has researched and applied for herself.

Most of the other places she has looked at for possible work experience ask for the candidate to be 18 or over so she will try next year.

She is well aware that it is an industry in which you start at the very bottom for a pittance, often doing very unglamorous menial tasks but that is how you learn and the more to put on your CV the better.

Up my opinion on English (not on recruitment) is formed by having a ridiculously large proportion of friends who are writers :) So, as I said it's just an opinion. But an informed one. I also am married to an academic (different discipline)

I went to Sheffield. Had a career in media - newspaper journalism.

Good university helps. What really helps is experience and contacts. The media is sadly now more than ever an industry for the well connected and this is to its detriment.

I would suggest holidays getting whatever experience she can/got involved in student media (whatever interests her) and have a great time at university chatting to interesting people, getting good friends and thoroughly enjoying herself.

Alot of media work is about personality, it's about meeting the right people and being endlessly creative and enthusiastic.

I trained with people with a massive range of degrees - including English, History, Philosophy, Sciences, Maths, languages, Music, Art and a small minority with Business/Finance.

The point was that RG is a club based on historical redbrick status & high research funding, not on excellent teaching. Being member of RG group isn't even a reliable indicator of quality of research, just quantity of research funding. There are more research staff & PhD students at the RG Unis, and more items of expensive equipment. You can't tell from RG status if the teaching quantity is also greater. There is no prestigious club of "the best teaching universities." There are league tables for student satisfaction, may be useful to OP, some broken down by subject.

The Student Room is full of relevant gossip about quality of student experience.

I wonder if RG Unis impose more pressure (than non RG) on Faculty to raise more money; the tension between research & teaching is something that most research lecturers groan about at best.

I don't know how chasing research grants works in English or film studies, though.

breath so did I. Things are different now.

OP my advice (based on 3 dc's going through the Uni process, including DC3 having just accepted Firm and Insurance offer) is to forget about the Uni Fair now. It is only a starting point.

Go to plenty of Open Days and listen to what they all have to say. Meet the lecturers, the students and get a feel for the courses. At that point you will find out what links they have with employers, what help is available to find work experience, jobs etc. It will all become clear once you have done that. Once she has chosen her 6, and got offers, go again to the Applicant Days. It's all time consuming but absolutely essential.

Fwiw I think the Russell Group Uni thing is complete bollocks. We went to one for Applicant Day which was so bad all the parents were discussing it. You could tell that the dept was all about research and they were only going to be interested in the top tier of undergraduates who were likely to become researchers like themselves. No employer links, nothing.

I do know that the Bournmouth course for film is excellent as a friend's son went there and now has a great career. As far from Russell Group as you could be I imagine!

I only qualified a couple of years ago - they were still recruiting across all disciplines when I moved to industry. A quick google of the big 4 indicates that they will consider any degree subject.

And everyone has a degree now - but conversely many successful people I know in the media do not have a degree They have skills, they have bags of energy and the capacity to work seven days a week for £7/hr for news agencies.

And yes things seem so different now.

I got into all the universities I applied for. But I could only afford to visit one - Sheffield - so I went there. I don't think anyone's parents really took much of an interest back then.