PhD advice welcome here please!

[Katkins1]

I'm an undergrad in the arts. Just been offered a conditional offer of 2.1 on a PhD (to skip masters). If I can get a career development loan and p/t job, will start this year. If not, then next and go for AHRC. Or get put in for AHRC next year.

I'm quite excited about it- it's my absolute dream, and thrilled to be skipping MA (if I get the grades- which I'm scared about, a LOT). I'm being a realist, single Mum so I know will be hard (have to work, pay my own way), but I'm so happy about it. I really want to be a lecturer and it's so exciting.

I'm determined to it; so can anyone give me practical advice- where to look for academic jobs and so on? And what to expect , please? I'm prepared to wait until next year to do it, though I'd like to start this year if I can. Considering part time too.

Ime, a PhD is not about being 'clever' enough, it is about having the endurance and stubbornness to stick it out.

Academic research, at its best, is the best thing in the world, but at its worst is awful. So much of who you are is tied in with your research, so a crushing reviewers report on a paper or grant can feel like a personal attack (and in the worse case - may well be. Some reviewers hide behind the anonymity of the peer review process to further their own research agenda, by pulling others down). That side of academia can be quite cut-throat and ruthless. Anyway, I digress.

Almost all PhD students go through what we used to call "the second year blues". This was the point at which there seemed no end to the process, but it's too far too turn back. Many will also complete their research, but not write up. I remember when writing up mine, I said to a post doc friend, " this feels like it will never end". He said, "I'll let you into a secret - there is no end too it, but the difference between the PhDs who finish and those which do not is knowing when to say I've done enough and get the thesis submitted".

I can't say having a PhD has made me feel better as a person - I'm not sure what you mean by this? It's something I've done, but tbh most of my friends have PhDs too, so within my social circle it is nothing unusual. I've become a bit more aware of it since leaving academia and if anything, found in certain situations I will keep quiet about it.

I was funded, I did it full time (though it took me four years - lots of people are faster). And I worked alongside. I don't know anyone who didn't, and if you don't do some teaching you won't get a job afterwards.

I see why magrat's asking what you mean by 'better'. I like the person I am now more than the person I was when I was 25, but that is true of most people, PhDs or not!

I love my job, but being an academic is a really tough career choice. Every academic I know works horrendous hours. Although quite a lot of it is at home, so you may not need childcare, that does not mean you are really available for your children. I think my DC just thought having a parent attached to a computer screen 24/7 was normal.

You will also need to be able to travel to conferences, so think about how you would manage overnight care as a single parent.

You also need to get used to having your work rejected, there are too many grant applications to be funded, too many articles for good journals, and too many abstracts at big conferences. It can be brutal. Although everyone knows that rejections don't necessarily mean your work is not good, as for most academics research is part of their identity, it can easily feel like a personal attack

Remember that the research you are invested in will only be a part of your job. Unless you are particularly good at getting grants (and this usually only comes with time) you will spend more time teaching and doing endless admin jobs. Be prepared to sit on committees for hour after hour discussing things at length often with no particular outcome

But when you do get the paper accepted, the grant given or the wobbly student gets a first, then nothing can beat it :)

My DD would be very much older by the time I'm qualified, 10 or 12 if I'm p/t. Hours I don't mind, I manage late rehearsals, early starts etc (outed myself there- it's Drama. Well, the PhD would be practice by research- making theatre and writing up the theory, development and audience responses)

Overnight is not something I've thought about, thank you for that. I had a real wobble when my supervisor had a bit of a thing with my dissertation and told me to re-write, a process I'm still going through (as we type, a quick break). It really did feel personal- but I learnt from it. She's quite tough as well- I suspect academia has made her that way!

I'm quite a sensitive and shy person, though, so I don't know how I will fare in academics... I'm really actually, quite quiet...

Katkins, from everything you tell us, I suspect you may regret not giving it a try. Yes it's really tough, but you won't know if you can do it if you don't try...

I was funded for my PhD, and I didn't work except for some teaching (mostly for my CV, tbh). But I do know a lot of people who worked on the side. They managed, although it may have taken them a little longer to finish. I also know a lovely girl who started a PhD at a RG with a 5-year-old girl, did brilliantly, got a postdoc and then a permanent position. It can happen, but in my experience she is the exception rather than the rule.

OK, I haven't read the whole thread but I'm an RG lecturer in arts. We've just completed the new AHRC Doctoral Partnership funding competition for the first time so am in a good position to give you the low down.

You will have a snowball's chance in hell of getting an AHRC award without a Masters' degree, not even with marks in the 80s at BA. The MINIMUM qualification for getting past the first round in our competition was a First at BA and a Distinction at Masters - and the short list was then determined from there on the basis of proposal fit to supervisor/department.

If you're going to be foolish enough to take out a career development loan, take it out for the MA at the RG university. Quite apart from anything else, I don't know a single final year BA student who is ready to go straight on to the PhD without a research preparation masters, and our cohort is one of the best in the country.

I know it's flattering, but any university that makes such sn offer to you does not have your best interests at heart. Please don't do this.

Completely endorse PiratePanda I'm afraid. At our place we just don't take self-funded PhD students (for any subject) for the noble reason that it probably isn't fair on the student and the wholly selfish reason that self-funded students have poor completion rates and that makes our HEFCE stats look lousy.

I'd seriously question how good your PhD offer is. You are a very smart student, you'll bring some money into the dept and you'll prob be a nice person to work with so from the depts POV what's not to like?

But if you spend another year getting an excellent MA you'll be better prepared for a PhD, have another qualification, have a better scholarship application and be able to make more choices about where you do your PhD. Getting an offer isn't difficult. Getting funding and an offer from a dept which will offer you good support and excellent supervision will be the difference between completing and not.

And after a decade in a department where we get 2-3 AHRC scholarships a year I've heard of only 1 student getting an AHRC scholarship after their project had started, and that student had very exceptional reasons for not being able to apply at the outset.

That said I definitely think you should go for the PhD. Don't want to rain on that parade.

How do you know if it is right for you. I don't know, I never wanted to do anything else, and there are no other jobs in my field that I would rather do instead. But I'm in law so maybe that is inevitable - I never wake up in the morning and think 'Gosh I wish I was spending the day with angry people in a courtroom today'! As grumpy as undergrads are at this time of year they ain't got nothing on litigants.

Thank you for these replies. I need to chat with my supervisor who did her PhD there, really, and am currently snowed under with work (and shattered), but I am reading and watching all of this really carefully - and taking all of the advice on board.

I really don't think there is anything else I want to do- but there are so many ways to achieve it, I just don't know what's right for me.

And yes, undergrads are grumpy, Penelope. Met a lad in my class today on the way out- even after 8 hours dissertation writing, I was in a rather good mood. He was locking up his bike. Asked if he was OK and he replied "No. I'm in a bad mood I came in for class etc. etc." and sloped off. He was very rude.

Maybe the fact I was feeling positive after not achieving all I needed to with my academic work is a sign I'm in the right place. Or maybe I'm just a grown up :D

I do have a friend who has self-funded, in the same field , just handed in. But she had parental support (lived at home), so that makes a huge difference.

Again, thank you so much for the replies so far. They are helping me to think very carefully, which was my intent in posting.

Don't want to hijack the thread, but there seems to be lots of knowledgeable people in one place.

I got my degree at 21, masters at 22 then worked ever since. Contemplating a phd now, but hated the masters. If I hated it, will I hate the phd too? I'm on an excellent salary, wouldn't want to take a pay cut for something I'd hate.

Hi :) That's Ok, I'm so glad everyone has offered so much advice. It depends what you hated about the Masters, I reckon. You could do p/t PhD alongside work? For me, I just KNOW it's what I'd love to do and at present I'm graduating, looking for job etc., so I don't think I've much to loose, but I think if you are set up, it might be a bit more difficult to get used to a pay cut?

In my present situation, I'd welcome going to work, higher study and enjoying my freedom- but it's different for everyone. I guess it depends on what you hope to gain , since you already have a good salary?

For me, I guess what's influencing my decision is that I really want to do it, and would love it. That said, I am considering deferring my offer until next year, so I have money there to do it.

It's an odd place to be in when you are still completing studies, worrying about those and thinking of the future all at once. A bit much. I actually feel a bit stressed and unwell, so there's no rush to make a 'big' choice just yet. Same with you, you could go in for next year?

I got bogged down in the loneliness of it all. It was a research masters, so didn't have a formal undergrad structure. I once went 4 months without seeing another person on my course.

Really need there to be a decent support network.

if you got bogged down in the loneliness of it all during your Masters, then a PhD may not be for you. It's the same, except, a lot worse.

Unless you can do a PhD as part of a team, working directly for someone who got a big grant or something? Depending on your subject and research interests, I occasionally see PhDs like that advertised.

I'd say same, if you don't like being lonely, don't do a PhD. It's all self directed.

It doesn't have to be lonely, I think. Maybe increasingly that's the case? Dunno. Someone with more experience will be able to say if it's changed as a result of the net and so on.

I've not got into PhDChat yet. I probably should, people say really good things about it.

But it is reminding me that one of the best things about my Masters was getting to know the group of people who are still some of my go-to people for academic things. It's really useful, because you're all in the same general area so they understand your work, but you're not so specialized that you're constantly up against them for jobs etc. So that is another plus in the Masters column (for me, anyway. I really need huge, qualifying brackets around everything I say on here).

Yeah I don't think it's the right time for me and a PHD. Should have said though, it's economics, so not strictly an art.

Think I'm going to leave it for a few years, work is excellent at the minute, don't want to give that up. Maybe come back to it and do it part time in the future - I've still got plenty of time.

I agree with all the warnings above. Do the masters if you want any prospect of a research career. Don't do a phd without funding. I got funding for MA and PhD and it was hard going. Having to find tuition on top would've been a killer. I'd also be very wary about them encouraging you to start a phd and then apply for funding. I sit on a sifting panel and I can say that it is unheard of to fund someone who's started.

Do the masters. Get decent training in research methods. Then apply for funding. And do consider that doing the phd funded means you can study full time. This has a much higher completion rate.

Apologies for stuttery phrasing. Typing on the go.

It's not totally unheard of to fund someone who's started. I was six months into mine self-funded when I got AHRC funding. Probably rare though (and I had an MA at distinction).

Thank you for the replies. I am thinking practically now. I would really like to do the PhD... so, I am going to ask the University for 2015/16 entry, rather than this year.

In the meantime, I have a job interview lined up for a small arts contract lined up on Friday (it's self employed, mainly evening work, my friend wants to hand it to over me and she did around her 2 kids last year).Have also seen a job in a slightly unrelated field, but still the arts.

The job has a (small) salary and a PG certificate (paid by the employer). It is 15 months long, and would fit in to my plans to do my PhD the year after, but allow me to save up,alongside gaining some PG research skills. Time out for classes is given, and its on the same site.

It looks like quite a nice job for a graduate, nice and quiet (library researcher in heritage) after three very busy years in Drama. Closing date is Thursday, so once I've finished the dissertation chapter I need to re-draft, I'm going to apply.

I really want to meet my academic dream, but I think I do need some money behind me first. Does this sound eminently sensible?

Library researcher in the arts you say? Have you any idea of your chances of getting it?

Not my field exactly but I'm involved in our library management and the process of recruiting for any researcher/archivist/librarian role in the arts is generally more cut-throat and competitive than recruiting for chairs in Law. Our last part time archivist role attracted 150 applications of which at least 50 could have been shortlisted for interview.

It could be a horrid job and no one will apply. But in my ltd experience if it involves hanging out round books, in an arts field and is paid the institution will be fighting them off with sticks. Does not mean you won't get it, but you may have to wait for the next job and the one after that etc before you get lucky.

What puts you off doing an MA?

Would be a lovely job, though (she says, wistfully ). My mate was a library researcher in the year between her MA and PhD and she absolutely loved it. And if you didn't get it, I would think having applied for it would show you were thinking seriously, wouldn't it? So it can't be a bad thing.

Good luck with the interview (and the re-drafting)!