Extra-curricular activites for university application.

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DS1 wants to be an engineer but has just been told by his school that he needs to improve his extra-curricular activities for his university application (he hopes to go in 2 years time). His hobbies are watching and playing sports with his friends, gaming and girls (although I don't think he mentioned the last two to his school but instead mentioned he plays trumpet).

Apparently he doesn't have measurable achievements in the sports or the music. He was in his primary school football but isn't good enough for his secondary school team (they only have one per age group). However he still goes to the training and plays football at least twice a week with his mates. He also plays golf and tennis when the weather is good but doesn't go in for competitions or medals preferring to play with his mates. Similarly with the trumpet he declined to do the grade exams or join the school band (not cool apparently) - prefers to play for pleasure (he no longer has music as a school subject but still plays). A friend who plays says he would be about Grade 4+.

Any advice?

In my opinion (with some experience of university admissions), no-one gets into any university when they would have otherwise not done so on the basis of extra-curricular activities which bear no relevance to their chosen course. For the purpose of university applications, grades (both predicted and achieved) are far more important than anything else, and may be the only factor that is used when deciding to give an applicant a place or not.

The PS is often not read at all, or skimmed over to check there are no extenuating circumstances mentioned on it that have not made it into the reference for whatever reason.

Obviously sometimes the PS is part of the decision making process, and in this case onew important thing is usually to show the applicant has developed an accademic interest in their subject outside of the classroom. A very common (and cheap) way to show this is by reading around the subject- with the books discussed and reflected on, rather than just name dropped. Also, for applicants, if reading around the subject they think they want to study in y12 bores them, it might help them realise it's actually not for them!

Another thing that can be tricky is work experience. Obviously for some courses, this is required. However for non-voccational courses where work experience is tricky to obtain (e.g. psychology) some admissions tutors may ignore the work experience mentioned, as it is usually gained through family contacts, and not an oppourtunity everyone will have.

In my opinion, it is very hard for a PS to make up for poor grades. However, a PS can lose a place that you might otherwise have got- e.g. through clearly showing the applicant has applied to other unrelated courses, or through poor English.

This is an interesting thread with some rather sad statements eg
'Building orphanages in some remote outpost has become a joke activity'.
I disagree because even though expeditions such as Raleigh would be beyond my family pocket, for example, I still think those experiences are expanding for young people's horizon's and useful for the communities they help. Little or even big philanthropic projects are far from being a joke, they help young people realise that it is possible and important to use even their basis skills to make a difference.

I have little to do with admissions but have been very interested in the impact of extracurricular activities as my 2 DC and their friends and acquaintances progress through university.

I agree with those who say that extending an interest of the subject beyond the curriculum is vital, as is getting the grades. At the end of the day they go to university to study a subject in depth, and need to get a good degree.

But without any shadow of a doubt, at university those students at my DC's universities (Oxford and London) who have been involved in extra curricular activities at school to a significant extent are much much better off- they are less lonely, have better time management skills, are more able to get involved in the life of the university and therefore take their team working skills and leadership skills to a higher level, and meet more interesting people and spend less time in the bar getting pissed. Extracurricular activities help with managing the stress of exams and study and with self confidence and a sense of self worth and I have been really surprised and pleased at the extent to which the extracurricular activities from school have been consolidated and taken forward by the DC and their friends. Whether it is that they are pleasantly woken by housemates practising the flute every morning or that they go to college choir or join in the college play or become president of a college society or organise runs for charity, the fact that they did these things at school under the guidance of teachers has meant that when they are on their own at uni they have learned how to manage their time and how to achieve results. Those of their acquaintance who didnt do those things tended to flounder a bit especialiy at the beginning. So encourage those 11 year olds to persist and persevere and practise and commit to their extracurricular activities through secondary school if they can as they will be better people for it.

Get him to do some volunteer work that is relevant. In his application he will need to apply the skills learned/used to his course choice.

Slightly difference, but it's what I did it nursing and most universities expect it.

I agree but assume that in a Personal statement you need to explain why the EC is important. They have not be undertaken simply to fill some space on the form and because parents or teachers have said they need to be done.

My DC are very different. DD is dyslexic and EC have been crucial in helping her develop self-esteem and reliance which has then helped her in the classroom. DS has always been quite studious, has always known what he wanted to study at University, has happily read around his subject and taken himself off to evening lectures at the local University. Both should be able to present to admissions officers as self-motivated and capable students. DD will probably use her extensive and varied EC activities when trying for a more practical course, DS is focussing on his interest in and around his subject. Fingers crossed that both approaches work!

funnyperson I don't think anyone has said that extracurricular activities are not hugely valuable for the young people doing them, from a personal development point of view and for career prospects. What we were discussing is their importance to UCAS applications, which most people seem to agree is not as great as schools might make young people think.

This thread has been a relief to read.

FWIW my DP is an academic and his view is that PS are rarely read in any detail and carry no weight over predicted or better still actual grades.

Let your DC do things because they want to, not to pad out their UCAS PS.

Depending on how he is doing, your DS might be better spending time studying rather than some made up activities to booster his UCAS form

It completely depends what sort of course you're applying for. They have a LOT of weight when it's something you really need to have a good character for, or when you need to show that you know what the role is going to entail. I've seen grade markers for personal statements from some universities, and they're looking for very specific things.

elastamum I'm an actual academic, and I have read personal statements every year I've done admissions (every year of my working life) and still do. Yes, i imagine there are degree programmes where statements are not considered, but we do, and we interview as well. This is the national norm in my discipline -- except for a few programmes at universities where they're scratching for students, but in my field those are generally post-92 institutions with the need for higher numbers of students, and lower staff numbers.

We read the personal statement and ask the applicant about aspects of it in interview.

Applicants should do their rearch about the specific degree programmes they're interested in, when writing their personal statements. Most departments will tell you what they're looking for in an application, at their Open Days or on their website.

So be careful of making sweeping statements or giving advice when you don't have the actual expience

upthechimney I absolutely agree that potential applicants should explore with specific departments what they are looking for in a personal statement. I've been an academic for over twenty years and involved in selection for most of those. In my department and in the majority of my faculty Personal statements are very seldom a significant factor in selection. We do not interview and never have. We are often a fall back choice for aspiring medics and their personal statements never refer to our subject. This doesn't worry us at all, quite often these applicants visit and decide they might actually prefer to come to us.

Yes, chemenger you confirm my point about people being careful of giving inaccurate advice by making sweeping statements. In our two disciplines, we each have vastly different practices. Applicants need to do accurate research at the source, not looking at advice from random Internet strangers.

It worries me, sometimes, reading here, and on The Student Room, how misguided some advice can be.

I have been involved in sifting personal statements for medical school applicants to more than one Russell group university, though no longer, and have taught medical students for decades. Extracurricular activities and work experience are taken seriously with good reason.
However I am concerned and worried by the notion that the only purpose of engaging in extra curricular activities is to put them on a UCAS form to look good. Hence I think the advice of any mother or person with common sense in relation to extracurricular activities is perfectly valid.
At the end of the day young people should do what they are interested in and can manage. Then they should carefully choose what to include on their forms and their referees should carefully choose what to put in their reference.

Maybe not strictly extra-curricular but I'd like to know how the EPQ is regarded by admissions tutors. Dd, year 12, along with the rest of her year is being strongly encouraged to do one. It would be relevant to her choice of degree subject. Are these actually useful/ worthwhile from the point of improving an application or another example of schools sometimes encouraging something time consuming and unhelpful?

haven't read the whole thread but could he join the Young Engineers?