Advice on nasty bullying - first year halls of residence

[Portlligat]

Hi everyone,

I've signed up as I've been reading some of the threads and like the honest, sensible advice generally on offer. (I've also had my speel disappear into the ether once already, so fingers crossed this works!)

Bit of background. DD1 - introverted, intelligent, struggles socially. Has just taken up a place at a prestigious conservatoire somewhere in Europe studying music. (I'm being vague as I don't want any place or person recognised.) She's finally found her niche in the world - loads of nerdy music students with whom she can ramble on about the wonders of John Cage (don't geddit!) counterpoint (don't understand it!) and opera (hate it!) and actually get people enthusing back at her, either in agreement or intellectual disagreement. She's even got over her terror of feeling not worthy of her place and worrying that everyone else will be much cleverer/better taught etc. than she is and is more than coping with the academic side of things, saying that it is the perfect place for her and beyond anything she ever imagined. Hoorah!

Oh but there's always that sticky old ointment and that pesky old fly - though in this case it's more of a hornet. This particular music college also offers courses for students studying other subjects (connected with theatre) and in her student hall of residence flat there is one such girl. This non-music student girl has taken an intense dislike to my DD and her behaviour is verging on the criminal. She complains that my DD spends far too much time in her room studying and when she does emerge she talks about music all the time...........well duh! She actually asked DD if she was autistic (she's not, but so what if she were?) and said that she objects to spending £130 a week to live with someone like her and that she should f* off and live on her own.

DD has now spent a week unable to eat properly as she is having to sneak into the kitchen late at night when this girl isn't around as she comes in tells her to f* off and get out of her space. (This is a top-rated establishment - I could reel off scores of famous names who studied there. You're never safe!)

DD went to student affairs who turned out to be Sweet Old Counsellor Man who spent an hour asking "so how does that make you feel?" Um. Take a guess!!

As to the others in the flat? Too scared to say anything to this nasty piece of work. One of them and DD are fast becoming friends and he has told her privately that he's there for her if she wants to talk but doesn't want to cause a scene by speaking publicly. Sounds harsh, but I would imagine my DD would be much the same. These introverted studious young people find such situtations extremely difficult.

So yes, she could ask to move flats - but she has made such a good friend (unusual for her, sadly) and anyway, it's disrupting and this girl will go on and victimise someone else I don't doubt - in fact DD has actually said that she doesn't want to move as she knows this girl will start on XX (abovementioned friend) and thinks he wouldn't cope............like she will? Very magnanimous!

Any advice gratefully received. Writing this has at least stopped me writing to the institution in question and naming this girl! Should I let her sort it out herself (she's very upset and says it's starting to affect her studies) or should I give her advice? What advice? (So far I've suggested that she doesn't get into any discussions with this girl and that she wears an ipod in the kitchen if she's alone with her - though this girl hurls abuse even when the others are there, so that won't really help.)

Help please!

So much to comment on - I wish you could comment beneath each separate entry - I don't want to miss thanking anyone or make anyone feel that their bothering to try to help hasn't been noticed. I'm really sorry if I haven't replied personally - but many of you do say similar things which is actually a good thing!

Alpine - you seem to have hit the nail on the head when you say that my DD really wouldn't be able to stand up to this girl. She also finds it hard to really make friends - and it appears some of the others in the flat are equally introverted. There is another girl who has actually made noises in agreement with some of the nasty comments, even though she and my DD have always seemed to get along fine.

Xoanon - thanks for the info about the performing children's parents' thread. I've had a look and there's plenty to read - I don't really feel like one of them as my DD2 does this as a hobby only so I don't feel the angst or pressure that some do. However, I am a licenced chaperone and have loads of experience (I love it!) so may well comment in there at some stage. Thank you.

As to the conversation about spoonfeeding our children these days - I, for reasons I don't want to get into here, have made a particular effort to make my dds self sufficient and that's why my dd1 is desperate to sort this out with minimum fuss - her attitude is to hide away - she's done it before sadly and I'm desperate for her NOT to do it again now that she is in a place where she is respected for who she is and what she does. I'm afraid I'm in the camp of reporting CAN actually make things worse. It does happen unfortunately.

This was a requested "quiet" flat on the application form. I suppose it is just possible that Witchface didn't get her first choice - though if that were the case why hasn't she already put in an application to move? Moving is made very possible due to the fact that there are wardens (2nd, 3rd and 4th year students) in several of the flats and they can be shifted to accomodate this.

Ignoring doesn't work though does it? Nor it appears does reporting it. Sorry but I think the only way with bullies is to stand up to them. DH is academic and smart and was at an ahem non academic comp. His parents are hands off and fearful so he got no support there. At the start of our relationship we were having a row and he turned and said in an icy but loud voice "no one treats me like that I will not be treated like that"
I have never forgotten it and am sure it was how he dealt with his peers at school. It has made him tough and confident. Creeping around and putting on ipods gives the message "I am weak" she needs to find her anger and fight back.

but I also think Thatchers children have brought up a generation where you do find a lot of DC who do not have respect for others

Yes, Thatcher's grandchildren unfortunately. I do worry that they have few reserves of common sense or resilience. Because although university is a helluva lot more negotiable, transparent, and supportive than I ever experienced it, the working world they go into is far tougher than I found it to be 25 years ago.

And I'm not complaining about my time at university! It was the making of me, a tough course at the top institution in the country (so I think!), with so many opportunities and people to meet. I loved it so much I never left

I'm afraid I'm in the camp of reporting CAN actually make things worse

But just to add to another poster's wise comment upthread: if she doesn't report it to someone it will look odd if the situation escalates.

The way it would work at my place: If I were her tutor either personal tutor or academic tutor and she just let me know what was going on, I could log it in her personal file, and discuss with her whether she wanted some help in taking it further. If she didn't want further action at that point, that's where it would stay.

Maybe you could rehearse with her a short, factual description of her current situation, which she could then use to speak with her tutor, the student housing people, and the student health service? Because I think if she talked to at least one, but preferably all, of those bodies, she'd get some support.

Terrible situation, particularly if she's in a requested 'Quiet' flat.

Also has she had a look at The Student Room website? There may be advice, support, or even just anonymous venting for her on there.

Jennywren/ STDGgenius/Sashh I agree totally with trying to encourage her to promote friendships with the others and try to eat when they are there. However, I don't know how much work students do at unis these days, but music students who are studying performance practise about 6 hours a day on top of all their normal assignments. (This is why this witchgirl is around the most as she doesn't have so much to do.) So it is hard to try and time her eating with the others as they keep unusual hours! They kind of get engrossed with their playing and don't realise it's dinner time!

But great ideas! Hey - I may print out this thread and send it to her! Like someone else mentioned (sorry, it's on the next page and I've forgotten who) she feels partly responsible for being treated badly. Mad, but what can I do?

Chimney. She's reported it to Counsellor-man at Student affairs. Does that count? I agree it makes sense to tell someone officially.

I know she found the Student Room when she was looking for info on unis/conservatoires but not sure she still uses it. I'll mention it. Thanks.

Kerala you are so right. But she did that once before, many years ago, and it really wasn't pretty. Hence the ipod solution.

Alpine - I'm not precious with whatever is spoken about on this thread it's all interesting and relevant.

Not a terrible suggestion, but too complicated as the one friend came to the flat with one of the others (he's no problem - just a little childish but not unkind at all) as they were at school together and I don't think would move without him. They're really HeadintheSand boys - just hide from any hint of trouble......bit like my husband!

Oh and Alpine - do you know my DD?!!! You seem to have understood where she is coming from and what she's finding so hard!

Could she talk informally to one of the older student wardens and ask his/her advice? That's the kind of thing they are there for I would have thought. If I was an older student warden and knew a new student was having to creep into the kitchen late to avoid a bully I'd want to see if I could help. An ally among older students could be quite useful?

It is very hard in that others are right / the confidence has to come from her. When ds2 was being bullied he was quite capable of standing up to others, just not this one particular boy. It was eventually sorted in that they actually became friends through a shared interest & then once that had happened ds2 had the confidence to tell him to bog off when be necessary.

But this girl is older & probably meaner. I do think ignoring & playing iPods can work - bit agree with the previous comment that she has to look as if she really doesn't care to carry it off. :(

Oh I did move from my nasty flat mate - but I was moving somewhere better so didn't see it as him winning.

If it's a favoured alternative (and possible & affordable) it can work

Educatingarti, believe it or not I hadn't thought about talking to the wardens! It's definitely an idea - shame there's no warden in DD's flat as it will mean speaking to a stranger. However, DD has done well (for her!) getting to know other students and I know she's gone round to other flats where there are wardens in residence so it just may be the way to go. Thankyou!

Let us know how things go!

Well, a quick update as there was so much advice to act upon - I took particularly seriously those who said that it should be reported to someone/anyone just in case things got so bad at a future date and she was asked why she hadn't said anything.

It is hard not to appear a victim and DD doesn't want to do that. However, her main subject personal tutor did ask how things were generally and she told him some of it. He wouldn't be in a position to do anything as he only comes once a week to teach a couple of classes - but did sympathise enormously. Not much help I know, but possibly important that he knew.

So the state of things at the moment are thus: Most encouraging and surprising is that one of the other boys told DD that her quiet friend in the flat, who had been unable to stick up for her during the Witchface's ranting, actually did speak to her when DD wasn't around and ask that she lay off DD and stop being so nasty. Well done to him and I so hope my DD would be able to do the same for someone in her situation. I haven't met him but I would love to tell his mother how proud she should be of him - a lot of you have understood how hard these situations are for quiet studious young people who really can't understand what on earth they have done to offend someone so much.

Unfortunately the quiet girl who had begun making agreeing noises with Witchface has been weak enough to join her covern and now pretty much ignores DD - as does Witchface herself who, alleluya, jump up and down everyone, seems to go away most weekends and even during the week sometimes as she doesn't have the same workload. The headphone advice seemed to work and DD was also advised very strongly (suggested on here sort of!) by me and DD2 to have people round (she'd said that she hadn't tried as she didn't want anyone to see the atmosphere) and I think she's acted on that a bit.

The most important thing is that she now realises that others are not swayed into disliking her just because of one nasty girl and has seemed to have made friends both from her own course (there are only a handful of them and all boys apart from one other girl who lives at home) and also amongst the older boys who have actually somehow managed to get her drinking alcohol..............eeeek!!!

So things not too bad - the course is fantastic and she loves it which is the most important thing after all. It's nice for her to have someone fighting her corner too.

Oh good!

It doesn't sound as though the horrible girl is going to start being nice, but if she lays off and isn't around much your DD will survive. And she will feel she dealt with the situation herself, which is so important for her confidence.