UCAS forms sent - just the waiting game now !

[snowyowl70]

My super organised DD1 has had email today to say her forms/reference have been received and should be at her chosen Unis in the next 48 hrs !!!!! So the waiting begins - to those seasoned parents who have done this before can you remember how long they had to wait for their first responses ? At least 2 out of her 5 may call her for interview (MFL) so am guessing these might be fairly on the ball ?

A mooted solution to that was to reduce the applicants' choices from five universities to two, but I seem to remember that applicants didn't like the sound of that either. Everyone wants change but none of us wants to make the change.

Couldn't the university year go from January then, to allow time for marking / interviews?

UK university years do not exist in isolation of the rest of the Northern hemisphere. One country cannot decide in isolation to have an entirely different timetable.

And btw, you CAN apply with known grades. You just wait another year and then apply. Much easier. You can make targeted applications to those Unis whose admissions criteria match your grades, no guesswork on 'what I might get', tons of time to visit Unis and decide where to apply to. And you get definite place offers not conditional offers. You dont have to go to Uni the minute you leave school. Life is not a race.

And what would the kids do between June/July and your imagined Jan start? Expect the benefit system to support them? Because no employer would employ them on that basis would they.

If you added an extra year on to a four year language course it would be a very long time. I just think the system is a bit random & complex for everyone. It is like guess work.

The admin behind UCAS is very good though - amazing they can process so many variable without mistakes.

I wonder if there might be scope for some form of "early decision" process. That is you could nominate one University as your early decision. If offered a place you are expected to take it.

This could make it easier all round. DS might have done this with his second choice. Once the dust was settled Universities would have a better understanding of demand and be able to make more focussed offers.

I get the sense that the massively increased demand, especially for maths based courses, plus Gove's reforms have left some University departments struggling to get a clear picture, needing to balance budgets and worried that some of the problems of last year, where popular courses went to clearing, might reemerge.

Some odd approaches are starting to emerge. Bristol economics, who had a reputation for being very late seem to have made a lot of very achievable and contextualised offers early in the cycle, with rumours that they are set to expand their department if they manage to attract a large number of good candidates. . UCL seems to be asking people to turn up to special open days in order, effectively, to collect offers. (I wonder if that is in part to filter out those who have Cambridge/LSE offers already, and those who are mainly focussed on their home country University system but who have also applied to the UK.)

LSE is sending out an interesting sequence of emails saying they are processing the offer and will give further information in two weeks, then seven weeks, and then an encouraging one saying you are one of the strongest in the cohort and you will know in 4 weeks, and an ooops, add in two weeks for Christmas. There is quite a lot on Student Room about the inability to count nor keep deadlines. Warwick simply have a bald statement on Student Room that they will let everyone know by May. Birmingham's approach using unconditional offers is presumably being watched closely.

As education becomes more international, the UK's tertiary education sector has some valuable built in advantages of other institutions in Europe, including English language, a number of world ranking institutions and a reasonably effective approach to undergraduate teaching. Making the most of the current demand and ensuring that students find the right places and that course find the right students in an efficient manner is important.

Sorry, gone a bit ranty. It is a bit odd that it seems to be economics departments that seem to be struggling so much to sort out supply and demand, whereas engineering places seem to have been processed much more quickly.

MrsBright I think it entirely likely that Durham is, as one element of its slightly vacillating admissions policy, waiting to see which Oxbridge offerees decide to firm Oxford or Cambridge and decline Durham. Those who have Oxbridge offers but haven't yet heard from Durham are free to withdraw from Durham on UCAS and firm Oxford or Cambridge and insure elsewhere. There's absolutely nothing to stop them. This is entirely consistent with Durham handing out early offers to those applicants who look very strong on paper for Oxbridge. The policy isn't as clear cut as gathered field/ not gathered field. Since Oxford is very likely to make lower offers than Durham, at least on the arts/ humanities side, and Cambridge offers are likely to be pitched at the same level as Durham across the board, many will in fact decline or withdraw from Durham, creating a good pool of additional places. My own view is that this is exactly what Durham does.

It is a bit odd that it seems to be economics departments that seem to be struggling so much to sort out supply and demand, whereas engineering places seem to have been processed much more quickly.

Perhaps this quote explains why: "Ask five economists and you'll get five different answers - six if one went to Harvard."

That's all really interesting, Needmoresleep, thank you. It will be interesting to see how things change when AS levels go too.

MrsBright you can apply with known grades but, for Maths in particular, a gap year is discouraged by many.
venturabay DS has an offer from Cambridge and Durham. The Durham offer is significantly more achievable than Cambridge.

On the subject of reforms to admissions process do you think the government are going to make things even worse by abolishing AS levels? At least now the unis have AS grades to use as a measure of the candidate's ability.

DS has applied this year with known grades. So much less stressful, and unconditional offers too! He will head off in the Autumn with more maturity and a good savings account, I think there's a lot to be said for it. That said, it wasn't planned (he changed his mind about his course choice on results day!), and it's so hard to see all his friends going off and having a great time, when he wishes he was too. Long term I think it's going to be one of the best decisions he ever made.

It is a bit odd that it seems to be economics departments that seem to be struggling so much to sort out supply and demand, whereas engineering places seem to have been processed much more quickly

DS is still waiting to hear from Durham and Loughborough for mech engineering. Bristol rejected him but left him on pending as they think they may have something else for him.

Yes littlesecret, that's because he's Maths! Maths at the very top departments has mesmerizing grades all of its own but isn't Durham further down the food chain for Maths? For a number of other subjects it ranks very high. Therefore an English or History or Law applicant with an AAA offer from Cambridge will almost certainly get an AAA offer from Durham, whereas Oxford has opted not to use the A* for many subjects, at least for the moment. But in neither case would Durham be a viable insurance, so for most applicants in those sort of subjects it would be barely worth waiting for an offer, other than out of idle curiosity.

My DBro had a gap year for similar reasons mindgone and it worked out really well for him. Is your DS thinking of doing any travelling at all - even a long holiday somewhere might be something nice to look back on - though saving some money very useful too - especially these days

Thanks for reminding us all of the possibility of applying after results, an interesting option to bear in mind.

DS has applied this year with known grades. So much less stressful, and unconditional offers too! He will head off in the Autumn with more maturity and a good savings account, I think there's a lot to be said for it. That said, it wasn't planned (he changed his mind about his course choice on results day!), and it's so hard to see all his friends going off and having a great time, when he wishes he was too. Long term I think it's going to be one of the best decisions he ever made.

Absolutely mindgone - I could have written this. Mine did the same, rejected all offers day before results as had chosen course she was no longer interested in, now has unconditionals that came in the day after application submitted. So many of those who went have already dropped out. I think a gap year is excellent and also allows them to save so that they go with a bit of money and not so much fear about student debts.

Needmoresleep - the Bristol economics course is getting "easier", as in less mathematical, as of next year, according to DSS1 (who regrets not doing Economics and Maths rather than just Economics in its current incarnation).

Interesting. Presumably this then gives them more scope to give contextual offers.

My understanding from DS is that many potential employers of economists will expect to see study to Masters level and that the choice of courses is much broader if you have done quite a lot of maths in your first degree. There again lots of students will be more focused on employment prospects after a first degree and may not want something too mathsy.

Thanks for that Juggling and waitingforflo, it's good to know of others doing the same. He has thought a bit (I think!) about travelling, but he really needs to get his backside into gear if he wants to make it a reality. He is planning a week in Ireland in March and a beach week in the summer. I would really love to see him go off for a few weeks and do something really interesting. He doesn't seem to understand that he will probably never have this much available time and finances again!
Is your DS doing anything more interesting Waitingforflo?

I agree with your DS, Needmoresleep. Certainly DSS1 expects to do a masters after his BSc, though whether he wants to work for a year first remains to be seen. He is going to do a six-week internship in a finance department in a French company this summer and I expect that will help him gain some clarity. University goes by so fast!

Needsmoresleep idea -'I wonder if there might be scope for some form of "early decision" process. That is you could nominate one University as your early decision. If offered a place you are expected to take it'.

I really like this idea - it might benefit everyone. Can't think of any downsides to this so far and it would have saved us wasting the time of a couple of universities. And all those trips! We are having to do open days again this summer as dd2 is in year 12.

Interested in the Durham offer debate. DD is holding the same offers at the moment from Cambridge and Durham. She has visited Durham and has grandparents and relations in the area. She would love Durham to be her insurance and is wondering about contacting them to see if they would lower their offer slightly. Is this a no go in the light of Ventura's comments?

hattymattie - what has your DD got to lose by contacting Durham and asking? They cannot withdraw their offer - the worst that can happen is that they say no.

And, since I seem to remember that your DD has an impressive handful of offers, maybe she could try to subtly market her proven attractions to Durham by telling them her position and explaining which rival university she will be putting for her insurance, with its better offer?

Thanks Bonsoir - we'll certainly contact them - but I expect them to be a bit snooty about it - I hadn't thought about it the way you had. DD reckons even if she holds two offers at the same level, Durham might be more forgiving if she drops half a point than Cambridge.

I'll help her to compose a tactful e-mail this weekend.

More fool Durham if they don't give your DD an offer that would make her choose them as her insurance over another university!

hatty your DD is evidently one of those exceptionally-good-on-paper (and otherwise!) applicants. FWIW my three elder DC all put Durham as their insurance with the same level of offer as their firm. They each decided that they'd prefer to throw themselves on Durham's mercy if they did drop a grade than end up at any of their other choices. In fact we all thought that Durham was more likely to be snooty than Oxford and Cambridge actually, but I saw their point and, being particularly fond of Durham for my own reasons, I was quite happy for them to give it a go. What they didn't do was to contact the departments in question and that was on my advice: I felt that had they approached them early and been told no, then there would be no scope left for a plea on results day when the actual results across the board will dictate what a department can do. As things currently stand Durham will have already over offered and I'm sure will just say no. On results day the landscape may well look different. What sort of school does your DD attend, if you don't mind my asking? I think it's conceivable that that may make a difference. Mine went to a high ranking state, so politically it would have been very hard for Durham to justify an early lowering of grades. And I've forgotten which subject she does, though I'm sure you've said upthread - is it MFL? Inevitably some subjects are far more oversubscribed than others, so the more competitive a particular department (english/ history/law) then the less likely to accede.