Oh my GOD - university - how the hell are we going to afford this?

[ElizabethMyDear]

I feel a bit sick - DS submitted his UCAS today, and I just looked at the government website about loans and grants. DH and I both work full time, so I knew he wouldn't get a grant, but for maintenance he can only take out a loan of £4788 - that probably won't even cover his rent.

His cousin in his first year at uni gets close to ten thousand a year to live on with grants, loans, and bursery, because his parents both only work very part time hours. I knew we wouldn't get money given like that, but I thought he would be able to borrow the same amount as his cousin gets - I thought it was the same for all students, and varied in how much you have to pay back?

We've got three other kids, no way can we find a spare £5k a year to top him up. And his course (medicine) is really too intensive for him to have a term time job.

He's screwed, isn't he?

What a good idea re baby sitting. Will pass that onto DD too. Sure she would love a night in front of someone elses TV :)

We put a few pounds away every month for DS while he was growing up and his grandparents chipped in a few pounds here & there - even with lousy interest rates for the last few years it's still a tidy sum. It wasn't put away with a specific pupose in mind as we had no idea he would go to Uni until he was in the 2nd year of his Spanish Bachillerato exams. It has come in rather handy and was a nice surprise to help him get through his studies. I'd advise any parent to do this if you can afford to - it doesn't need to be a lot, ours certainly wasn't, then whether they go to Uni or not it's a nice nest egg at 18.

We saved in the hope of paying ds fees etc as we only have one child we thought we could do it until the fees rocketed!

I worked as a hospital cleaner in med school. I even got double time on weekends. I learnt loads as a 'fly on the wall' about nurses, doctors and above all patients.

I think it should be built into the course, much more useful than all the complicated biochemistry we were taught and never used again.

He could lodge with a family rather than go in halls/private rent as that'd be cheaper and could offer to do babysitting for the family.

Masters funding - if it's a science masters you can apply for funding via a research council. You apply via your university - get her to ask her head of department she'll need very good grades to get it though.

Been stressing about this all day.

Bursaries, I don't get bursaries. Why give more money thousands, from some uni's - to the students to whom student finance already gives the most money?

The Student Room is a real eye opener. There are kids on there who have literally only a few pounds a week after paying their accomodation - five or ten. Because they only get the minimum loan and their parents can't top up.

And the bursary crowd boasting about how they will be able to save most of what they are given, as it is so more than they can spend. Or that they are putting it towards foreign holidays, or just going to blow the lot in Hollister.

It's such a random, divisive system, and not just the parents but the students are angry. I can forsee a lot of resentment festering on campuses. Because 18 year olds don't have the tact to not talk about money, if they've got £10k to spend they are going to show off.

Bursaries have always been available, it's nothing new.

Agree it's really tough - had the 'shock' last year when DS1 went to uni, and DS2 has gone this year, both on almost minimum loans. Both worked in summer holiday which helps. I had also saved the child benefit for many years so did have some savings. We have cut back on everything possible, eg often use bikes, cheap food, one week holiday, no heating on yet, charity shop clothes. Hard to believe we're having to live like this on a supposedly good salary. I have even considered letting out one/both of their rooms at home! I agree may not be realistic for your DS to get job while studying medicine - but it should pay off in the end. And if stuck there seem to be good free overdraft offers eg Halifax loaned DS1 £500 in Y1 and would have increased it in Y2. I think the moneysavingexpert website has info about student overdrafts (says Coop bank good). Hall fees seem to vary enormously - maybe cheaper to use catered accommodation than self catering.

It is certainly random and unfair. You could have a very very rich parent who pays you nothing which means you don't get any free bursary. Or you could have a cash in hand taxi driver father who pays hardly any tax so you get the bursary and a load of loans too and cash from the parent. Or my children have had no debt as I've paid the fees and the hall fees and paid them £100 a week for expenses. That ende dup about £10m,000 a year in total when fees were much lower so was about the same as their school fees so no pain for me but then I did never give up work whilst some women give up all careers and their income which sometimes isn't that wise.

Assuming all A Level exams are finished late May/early June, that leaves 3 months for him to get a job next summer and get some savings behind him. Plus it's approaching Christmas so he can hopefully get some work now. And he'll have to do this in all the rest of the holidays if he's not allowed to work during term-time.

Yes it's shit the way university education has been handled and I have twin boys in the same position as your son OP (due to start uni October 2013) so I feel your pain (and anger) but that's another thread!

based on waht people say here about the med school hours, a student could feasibly get a job as an au pair and have rent / food taken care of AND be paid on top, provided the family kept hours regular - so could do breakfast & school drop off daily plus babysitting evenings.

Same with any means tested benefits, you will always get people cheating the system. No need to tar students who's parents are on a low income and cannot help with them.

the bursaries aren't that great either. My dd gets one to cover the fees as it is medical plus a little bit more but then the student loan is not great and is reduced because of the bursary(i know she doesn't have to pay bursary back).

The loan etc is not enough even to cover rent so we have to top up plus relatives help. It is awful as you don't realise til you start to investigate.

we have 2 other children. then you lose some of your family allowance.

she did get offered a part time job but it would have taken 2 hours to travel there. she is trying to get p time work but her course is quite intense with long hours

DD's bursary doesn't bring her income up to 10K either. That would be a generous bursary of 3K and her uni doesn't offer that much.

It's a terrible system. Dd has a friend who is at university in london, her parents are wealthy but refuse to top up as they do not approve of the course she is on.

So you have this ridiculous concept of a student being autononmous enough to choose their own course, but completely reliant on their parents for living expenses, and subject to the whims of their parents like this poor girl.

According to dd she is at her wits end, constantly stressed about money and worried about the future.

I do wonder though how long it will take for students to get themselves out of debt. I mean the average uk wage is something like £26000 ( I think), so it they have £50k debt it's going to take forever . Even if they live in London and a better job ( say £40k salary, then they are looking at almost £20k a year for renting a one bed flat! Plus huge living/ commuting costs, there's barely anything left from that figure so still takes forever)

Also consider the option of no uni but training in a specialised field. Out of a group of 10 friends from school, I was the only one who chose not to go ( had a place). 8 years on, I have trained, travelling, have a good job, blah blah. Unfortunately all the other 9 have finished uni, now live back with parents and have either no job or just a basic supermarket job to tie them over. I think in this climate, with jobs often hard to find, uni is good for specific degrees ( ie medicine, dentistry), but studying English or history is becoming pointless.

Another 2 friends wanted to study history/ architecture. One did and is now also still looking for work ( 5 years after finishing). Whilst the other chose a different route. He volunteered abroad building wells and schools in Africa ( 2 years). He studied short courses whilst away to build up his portfolio. He then returned and started an apprenticeship with a firm, and now over the last few years has worked his way up, gained qualifications through work along the way and is now v high up and v successful

Sorry not putting anyone off, just trying to show how other options may be available, especially to those who aren't hugely interested and are just following the crowd

Here, in Australia, almost everyone goes to local unis because there are no living grants. Rural students, who don't have that option, commonly work for 1-2 years before going to uni to earn money and to qualify as 'independent' (which means they can get a little govt assistance). The idea of getting money to live a student life seems quite a luxury to me.

I find it pretty incredible that parents leave it until the child completes their UCAS form before considering whether or not they can afford to send them to University! Surely there has to be some responsibility to plan in advance a la the US system of saving for college from a young age and budget mortgage/ family planning accordingly. Of all professions, doctors are the most employable and most banks would consider them a very good risk for lending via student loans/ overdrafts to be repaid from future earnings.

I have friends who have been in a similar dilemma recently and I think we will be in a similar position to you (prays for a lotto win).

Friends sons has taken a "gap" year before going to Uni. He wants to be a teacher and has found a job for a year at an indepenent boardingschool he is the extra adult on trips, helps run certain clubs and helps out on the sport side. He lives in and using the money earnt to put towards uni next year. Sadly it was the only way he can afford to go and even then it will be tough. Its given the whole family an extra year to help save.

Its not ideal and although he is committed his mum is worried this gap year may become permanent. On the plus side he is getting lots of useful experience for a future career as a teacher.

Apparently he has other friends also taking gap years - but no spending it travelling around Africa building wells but working full time in call centres, offices etc (some totally disconnected to their future careers) in order to get a lump sum behind them.

This may not be suitable for medicine - not sure how it works as my eldest is only in year 9.

3nations you have to remember that American parents whose DCs are starting university this October knew 18 years ago that they needed to save for tuition fees etc . In the UK the increases in tuition fees, decrease in loans etc, general costs etc has been more recent and therefore the new university parents have not had this lead in time.

3nations this is new legislation - parents haven't known for 18 years that there will be a cap on how much loan that their child could take out.

Yes, no one was told there would ever be fees. My daughters' fees were £1k a year in 2005 or whenever, now fees are 9x as high and before their time when most of us graduated there were no fees at all. Mind you when I got a degree only 15% of people got them and only a third of those got a 2/1 or higher so it was a pretty rare thing.

Well it pretty difficult to plan when the government gave approx 10 months notice to treble the fees. From debate to applying for UCAS. How they got away with it I have no idea.

Also it's not appropriate to compare funding in other countries to our own. We are a very heavily taxed nation and therefore expect our DC's education to be funded as has been the case for many years. We pay in what we can afford by way of direct and stealth taxes and expect a level of public services. It should take a whole different system to be able to tell us to stuff it, we won't educate you and/or treat you when you are ill etc etc etc...

I actually find it 'pretty incredible' that someone would make such an ill-informed comment without knowing the background of the subject, before they come swooping in to comment about people's poor financial planning. [Hmm]

Yes, I'm the stupid one. I should have investigated earlier. I just sort of assumed that, while I knew university was going to cost a lot, that they would lend you enough to go. I knew it would have to be paid back, but not that there would be such a shortfall. I bet loooads of working families with teens don't know about it. I thought you only had to save for your kids uni if you didn't want them to take out a student loan.

How long before tuition fees are means tested too?