Oh my GOD - university - how the hell are we going to afford this?

[ElizabethMyDear]

I feel a bit sick - DS submitted his UCAS today, and I just looked at the government website about loans and grants. DH and I both work full time, so I knew he wouldn't get a grant, but for maintenance he can only take out a loan of £4788 - that probably won't even cover his rent.

His cousin in his first year at uni gets close to ten thousand a year to live on with grants, loans, and bursery, because his parents both only work very part time hours. I knew we wouldn't get money given like that, but I thought he would be able to borrow the same amount as his cousin gets - I thought it was the same for all students, and varied in how much you have to pay back?

We've got three other kids, no way can we find a spare £5k a year to top him up. And his course (medicine) is really too intensive for him to have a term time job.

He's screwed, isn't he?

[Tressy]

I only started looking at funding when DD was in year 11 and of course it changed completely between then and now but I don't think they ever loaned anymore than the full maintenance loan of around £4500.

It's always been the case that the grant and loan was means tested hasn't it?

OP I don't know your circumstances but there should be some grant and bursary available up to a household income of 45K.

[ElizabethMyDear]

I bet if I started a thread in chat with the title 'how much will you be paying per month for your children to go to university' most people with kids a bit younger than DS will answer - 'nothing - they can take out a student loan'.

But if they are a two parent, working family, they will find out that that won't be nearly enough. not even close.

I am trying hard not to add up what we would gain in Student grant and Tax credits if I gave up work to be a SAHM. If I did the calculation I think i would weep. Or quit work.

[Xenia]

The grant was always means tested but there used to be no fees. So when I went I got zero grant due to my parents' income and they gave me the same sum as the full grant but there were no fees and the state was only funding 15% of people to go so it was a much smaller burden and most people did not take or pass A levels.

[Tuttutitlookslikerain]

We used to have live in Wales, but moved for DH's job, after trying to live apart for months and him coming back at weekends. Had we have known about the fees situation we would have stayed living there and made it work, somehow.

DS1 is going to look at Lincoln Uni tomorrow with his friends. He can commute there and live at home. That is the only way we can do it. He is still in two minds if he wants to go.

[violathing]

So only rich people or poor people can attend uni? What sort of incomes are we talking of for the cut off for a maintenance grant?

[Tressy]

Viola, it's about £42,600 cut off for grant and some bursaries. The maintenance loan is up to £5,500 and more for London.

Accomodation costs can be as low as £3,120 say £80 per week, so that leaves some money to live on and presumably parents have been able to feed the student at home so can perhaps afford to help out the same when they are away. They are only away 33 weeks in the year. So it's just about do-able.

[BeckAndCall]

The maintenance loan for outside of London for those above the income threshold is actually only £3400, which didn't cover the cost of halls for either of my kids last year.....

[ggirl]

It is bloody hard...dd in 2nd yr and I upped my hrs at work to help her out and as a consequence she gets loads less loan....aaargh.

[webwiz]

I think there is definitely a problem with how student finance is being "portrayed"- we are being given a political/media message that its fine, nothing is paid up front and there are loans available but the reality is if you are just above the income threshold then your DCs can only access a proportion of the loans and they don't even cover self catering halls at most universities.

[alemci]

exactly webwiz and also most people on middle income don't have any money to save because we are being so heavily taxed and the cost of living has risen rapidly since 2008. 43K is nothing in Greater London. I am sure the cut off threshold was higher not so long ago

i wasn't able to save my family allowance as I needed it most of the time for day to day stuff for my dc.

TBH i just hope my dd can manange but then her ys is only one school year below but wants to take a gap year.

the accommodation for my dd's university is £540 a month and is not in London though she does get a bus pass for the city and free insurance which is something

[JobCarHouseNoBaby]

I went to uni 2003-9 and had income of £6k per year. £3k was student loan, other £3k was earnt part time during term and by working three jobs over summer.

Remember whilst very pricey, the tuition fees are paid when you graduate nowadays. So really your DC need to find rent and living costs. My loan covered rent and my earnings covered living. It is totally possible and I had a budget spreadsheet my dad gave me which helped me manage money still using it

I can't get my head around parents giving dc cash to go to uni. My parents had a frank discussion with me when I was at 6th form - we are broke so you need to get a job and save for uni. I did 4 years and survived.

[webwiz]

But the whole system works on parents giving money JobCarHouseNoBaby that's why the maintenance loan is means tested.

[TheCatInTheHairnet]

This thread has been curiously reassuring. We have to start paying for the first of 4 expensive US college educations in 3 years for DC1. We have already told him he will have to work before, during and afterwards to help towards it, take loans, apply for every scholarship available.

But, there was a sentence further up the thread that resonated with me, about how much they cost living in your home right now. In the past 3 days alone, I've handed out over $300 for his school lunch account, a new tshirt, a couple of social things and for a train fair into the city. And that's not even starting with how much it costs to feed him, drive him around, his phone, etc, etc When I add that all up, all of a sudden Uni seems a little bit more affordable.

[JobCarHouseNoBaby]

My loan was means tested too. Because my parents earnt above the threshold I only got the minimum £3k per year. Parents gave me nothing. But I think working all summer before uni and during my 4 years there taught me a lot. I still went out and had fun but learnt how to manage my cash to allow it.

Also don't forget student loans aren't nearly as expensive as personal loans. I just got my annual statement this week - they charged me £150 interest on a balance of £8k - for the whole year. My repayments come out in my pay along with tax and NI so I don't "miss" the money and it's not counted when applying for normal credit such as mortgage.

I realise students now have much more to pay off than me but it's just a form of tax. Don't think of it like a credit card.

I would recommend getting supermarket part time jobs. I used to transfer between home and uni asda so could work in one job whether at home or uni. Hours are good to fit around uni and you get employee discount on food shops!

[ThatVikRinA22]

posting with my old name so no one gets me muddled with the other tutu on this thread!

my DS is a lincoln. he is loving it - he did the first 2 years at home and the is now doing a third living there. i think its a good uni in a great place.

ds has been investigating how he can do his masters next year - he has some ideas in place which are really impressive and he seems determined to find a way.

have to take my hat off to him.

[Quiteoldmother]

I think OP is right that people don't realise about the shortfall. I certainly didn't realise until DS1 went to uni in September last year. It was a late decision so we only applied for loan in August. Had to get private hall of residence accommodation, self catering and cost £130 p week for a minimum 43 week contract (with no get out clause). He got minimum loan of about 3500 so was 2000 short before paying for food, books etc. We simply had not anticipated how much it would be until literally about a month before he went. Spent the year since then tightening belts in anticipation of DS2 going this year! But I am sure OP is right that many just don't realise because everything related to student finance has changed so much in recent years.

[webwiz]

DD1(21) had a saturday job throughout the whole of sixth form and so did most of her friends but by the time DD2(19) was sixteen hardly anyone could find a job. DD1 did summer work at a factory between her first and second year but this year they didn't take on any temporary staff. It isn't always easy to just "get a job" and depends on where you live.

DD2 who is just starting her second year has a job working in the university bar, hopefully this will give her some extra cash but be flexible to enough to not affect her studying because after all that's what she's there for and its 2:1 or nothing these days.

[Xenia]

I don't agree that only the rich or poor can afford to go.

All the poor get is an extra £1500 or something isn't it? The middle earners have to borrow their maintenance and can borrow up to about 5000, bit under that. If you are poor then you are given 3200 of that and you borrow the balance up to the £5k. So you are NO better nor worse off in the meantime whatsoever.

So whether you are poor or middle earner the issue is if you don't live at home can you afford to pay rent and eat on the just under £5k you borrow plus whatever you earn in the holidays etc. The answer is of course you can even if your parents don't pay a penny unless you ave used to some kind of extravagant ilfe of riley.

The real issue many parents have is they don't like the idea of the child taking on £9k fees debt and £5k maintenance debt for each of 3 years so they choose to pay some of that to the child instead but they don't have to.

When and if it becomes clear that fora particular course children will be better off without going on it and getting a job instead then market forces shoudl do their work and the more pointless courses or unpopular ones will wither on a vine.

[goinggetstough]

xenia the maximum a student from a poor family can get is £7125. (Loan and grants) many universities they top this up with another bursary so a student could get 8/9000 depending on university. This comes in a variety of ways accommodation reductions, fees waiver etc

The minimum a UK student can get is £3575 and their parents are expected to contribute. They are not compelled to by law but without their help a student can be in great financial difficulty. There are a variety of reasons why a parent can't or won't fund an undergraduate DC and the problem is that the loans these DC are allowed to take out rarely if ever even cover their accommodation. Many of these parents would be happy for their DC to take out a loan for £5000 for living expenses but that is the problem they can't!

[webwiz]

I think the new tuition fee regime will make some courses fall by the wayside and will make some people think again about university. In fact I was talking to an acquaintance last week who's son has decided not to go to university and is temping through agencies at the moment. He is a bright boy and was definitely put off by the cost.

I went to university and so did DH and I think the experience was useful both in career terms and for the sheer joy of studying a subject in depth. (Not sure that DH feels the same way about his maths degree!). My DDs have both chosen to go to university and DS(15) wants to go as well . I don't want them to spend the whole time working and worrying about money. DD1 switched to a 4 year course so we have an extra year of funding both the girls but after this year we will be down to just one. We can afford it but it is a lot of money and must be hard for those who are just over the threshold.

[SomeoneThatYouUsedToKnow]

It is true that there are many Uni courses that do not seem good value for money. DS1 and DS2 have chosen courses which are extremely likely to lead to well paid, secure and interesting careers. I am happy to help fund them as I know it will have a huge long term benefit. Both their courses are well respected and have a high proportion of Lectures/tutorials etc. I would be a lot less happy to help fund them to do a 'wishy washy' degree with less than ten hours contact time a week.

[TheCatInTheHairnet]

See, Someone, that's the irony we face. I have always argued with my DH that our children can take any degree they like. He has always said that he wouldn't be prepared to pay for a degree in Lala Studies. His degree is an MMath and mine is in Social Studies. It's the eternal argument!!

However, the nearer it gets to paying almost half a million dollars in college fees, once all 4 have graduated, the more I'm coming to that way of thinking!!

[TheCatInTheHairnet]

I'm knocking Social Studies then btw. Just the crazy made up degrees, entirely developed to make money.

[TheCatInTheHairnet]

NOT KNOCKING!!

By the way, Xenia, I love the fact that you can even find a way to bash stay at home mums in a going to University thread. With us all being lazy cows and all.

Goes and calculates the amount of money I have, singlehandedly, raised over the last year for a centre for deprived parents. And how many hours my children have spent in a food bank. Does that make my life more valid to you?!!

[mummytime]

Xenia, the full maintenance loan doesn't necessarily cover evenHall fees, so even the poorest students may well struggle.

On another note do be careful what you consider to be LaLa studies, as for example I happen to know that "Surf Studies" is actually a very business focused degree, and its graduates do quite well.

However having just visited US college day, and talked to a lot of US colleges; I think the big shock for UK ones will be those degrees which offer very little in terms of contact hours. It is also quite interesting to talk to places, which quickly talk to you about why their courses are better values, and include things such as "the Mid-West has a lower cost of living".

I started to think about the cost of University when my son was about 5; when his best friend was pulled out of State school and went private, to be honest. But I had already seen the US system in action, so knew what was coming.