what magical ingredients does a prospective medical student need to get an offer

[wheredidyoulastseeit]

my son did'nt get an offer this year,
so far he has predicted grades of A and A* English Chem, Bio helps out with a youth group, Duke of Edinburgh silver, 1 week work experience in hospital, has part time job in a shop, Biology prefect at school, also sports leader in school. UKCAT score 720. what does the lazy layabout need to do to get a look in?

Agree with all posters re work experience. DS1 worked at nursing home every weekend for 2 yrs (qualified as Dr last year). DS2 is now 3rd yr Dentistry student and worked at same nursing home. Both got loads of work experience and both got 4/4 interviews and 3/4 offers. DS1 in TB clinic, shadowing Drs, volunteering etc. D of E Silver also, MENSA, grade 8 clarinet, prefect, really specific PS - talked about what experience had taught him, mentoring younger chemistry pupils, various academic prizes. I'm sure he/they would be happy to make suggestions to improve your DS's PS if you needed anyone to look at it.

Just stumbled upon this thread. My DS just finishing second year med. Getting in was a nightmare, and I feel for you. Just wanted to add that another good "unskilled" yet really great temp job to try for is hospital theatre portering. Basically pushing trolleys around, but it gets you inside the operating suite. My DS did this--not sure if it helped at selection time or not, but he had seen a bit of real life (gory) medicine. One of the surgeons let DS observe if he had a quiet moment. Look at NHS and also private hospitals. Good luck.

Agree with the others
-needs more work experience over a period of time in a hospital/gp setting to show commitment. One week doesn't cut the mustard.
-needs to demonstrate empathy and compassion
-needs to sound really interested in science in the PS as A levels are a bit thin
-ask school to tweak the reference
-d of e only good to show team working, leadership skills and coping with challenges. Doesnt matter whether its bronze, silver or gold, its what he learned from the experience that counts.

Many students get in second time round and the advice already given by others here is spot on.
TSR is useful for getting a better grasp of tactics. His strong point is a high UKCAT score so he should apply where that will be part of the selection process. Make the most of assets!

Thinking about this one a bit more, I'm inclined to disagree that it was the relative lack of work experience.
Med schools know a 17 year old is going to have difficulties getting in under the 18 yr old rule so many employers stick to. My DD was a late July baby and had the same problem so her medical w/exp was meagre. At interview they liked the things she had done with children and asked about that but ignored the voluntary work in a care home.

I think the problem is the Biology, (instead of Physics or Maths), as a second science. The more conventional combination is Chemistry, Physics or Maths and a non-science A level. Many med students also do Biology but most med schools are happy enough with Biology to A/S level or none at all.
Having said that, some do ask for Biology A level specifically so it would be worth seeking these out. Most don't ask for Biology and one or two state that the science subjects should not include Biology.
(TSR used to have a handy table showing requirements. I don't know if it is still there.)

It's also worth looking for Access to Medicine courses as a route in if the lack of Physics or Maths really is the problem.

Found it. It wasn't TSR!

www.medschoolsonline.co.uk/index.php?pageid=78

Then look at the actual prospectus for each uni to check these requirements.

". . . and one or two state that the science subjects should not include Biology."

Must say I'm pretty amazed by this - medical school doesn't want Biology. Which school(s) are these?

Mine did some volunteering in a care home, arranged her own work experience, short placements on the wards shadowing the nurses then the doctors. So not a great deal of work experience. She also had DofE, Sports Leaders, Senior Prefect. It is important to demonstrate that you can reflect on your work experience. Both on the PS, to secure that interview, then be able to answer unexpected question about it.

Agree with others that he should look to apply tactically. High UKCAT weighting uni's, less on GCSE results as some will throw out an application that doesn't have the correct GCSE scores.

Lot's of students have to apply a few times. Uni's like re-appliers and gap year students as it shows determination.

Does he have any other offers as a backup. I would be careful going down the graduate route as it's more competitive and must be so expensive nowadays.

He will find it easier to apply once he knows what his grades are.

It sounds like he needs to do serious work on his personal statement. Only a small part should refer to his non-academic activities, and where it does, it should say how he has benefited for the experience (eg teamwork, working under pressure).

One week of work experience is not a lot for medicine. He should look at getting a variety of experience, and perhaps some voluntary work (eg in a care home), and he needs to say what he has learnt from the experience and how it solidified his desire to study medicine.

The 3A in his GCSEs my have been part of the problem. A lot of places won't give you a look-in with less than 7A. Having actual A2 results will help.

When all's said and done though, we all know that this process is such a lottery.

I really do feel for the OP and her DS and anyone who has to go through the whole process again - I really thank my lucky stars that we're through the other side.

A gap year full of relevant interesting nasty work experience that shows he is really serious and gives him a bit of maturity.

I didn't mean to imply that Biology isn't important for the course. It might not be an entry requirement though so the OP's DC should check carefully when choosing where to apply next time round.

DD tells me now that her first year would have been a great deal easier if she had done the full Biology A level but it is quite acceptable not to. She did Biology to A/S level and continued with Chemistry, Further Maths and German A-levels. On acceptance the ones who had not done Biology A level were sent a letter from the med school telling them to read certain chapters of a weighty tome. She says things didn't really fall into place until she had read more than the required chapters.
Her cousin, at Oxford interview, was told to drop Biology A level - 'We teach you all the Biology you need' - and concentrate on her other A levels.

I empathize with you entirely OP, and I guess this must be a very stressful time for your DS and yourself. Essentially, all that?s got to be said have been said here on this thread and I have nothing much else to add except to advise to ?look outside the box? so to speak, in addition to all the good advice already given.

(1) All UK medical schools work closely with the General Medical Council (GMC), the controlling body governing doctors in this country and it would be useful to get into their mindset and see what they, the GMC want in a new doctor.

Quote: The GMC sets the knowledge, skills and behaviours that medical students learn at UK medical schools: these are the outcomes that new UK graduates must be able to demonstrate. The GMC also sets standards for teaching, learning and assessment. These outcomes and standards are laid down in Tomorrow's Doctors (2009) (pdf). The guidance is also available online. [GMC]

The GMC have published a comprehensive guideline entitled, ?Tomorrow?s Doctors? giving a clear insight into the calibre of future doctors that would like to register.

Without doubt, understanding the full report and gearing the UCAS application towards the GMC?s ideal would surely impress the admissions tutors no end.

(2) Don?t know how feasible it is for your DS to attend but in a couple of weeks time there is a ?Medical Careers Day?, a one day conference organised by the Royal Society of Medicine in association with Eton College entitled, ?So you want to be a doctor?? Many big guns from the medical world/schools such as Imperial College, Oxford University, Barts and The London School of Medicine and Dentistry, etc. will be there guiding prospective medical students on how to make a successful application to medical school. You can view the programme here.

I?ll be taking a promising kid from a state school there which is what this conference is aiming at. But whatever, I wish your DS every success this time round. Good luck!

Thankyou all for your very helpful advice. DS is sat next to me revising. once exams finish he will look at volunteering and once he is 18 he will look for hospital work.
And if the grades are lower than necessary for Medicine he will look at applying for nursing.

Please keep the advice coming it is very heartening to read all your lovely comments

Wheredidyoulastseeit - I feel your pain. We are a year behind you. My son is just coming up to choosing medical schools and I have spent all day on the phone checking their requirements and trying to find out how he can get clinical work experience as he is only just 17. Unfortunately, we don't know any doctors either.

From phoning around it seems that some medical schools like clinical work experience but appreciate that it is hard to come by. I am worried that it will put my son at a disadvantage to be honest.

He is doing biology, chemistry and maths A levels and dropping history AS level. He is predicted AAAa but his GCSEs are not stellar - 1 A*, 9 A and 3 Bs. I have checked with each university their GCSE requirements and some have less emphasis on GCSEs than others. Do they take into consideration the school that the applicant attends? He goes to the local comprehensive.

His work experience to date is 5 years St John's Ambulance, 3 years Army Cadets (one year teaching cadets), a week working in occupational health (which included one day observing doctors and nurses) at the local hospital and 6 months taking a trolley around the hospital once a week selling newspapers etc which gives him some patient interaction but no elusive shadowing...

I would be very grateful for any other suggestions regarding clinical work experience or anything else that may help his application. I have asked him if he has a plan B just in case he does not get in and he says he will get the grades he needs and then try to get a job as an HCA or apply for lots of volunteering posts that he will be able to do when he is 18.

Lots of good advice so far. No one has given you the magic answer coz there isn't one

My son got into medical school last year (2 offers, 1 rejection, 1 withdrawn) with no GSCE's or equivalent, (we had lived overseas) very few extra curricular activities, no instruments, no D of E, no leadership role and no sporting achievements. He did have a high UKCAT score and had done plenty of work experience which he reflected on in his PS. He wrote his PS completely by himself and I think it showed but at least it wasn't the standard perfectly written norm.

My advice would be for your son to try and improve his already respectable UKCAT, get some more work experience and reflect on what he has learnt from it in his PS. The most important thing he must do is select the Uni's VERY CAREFULLY. I would contact each Uni that your son is interested in and ask for confirmation, in writing, that your son is at no disadvantage for his GCSE'S and for not having 3 science A'level's.

As my son did not have any GCSE's we looked very carefully at each of the Uni's requirements and there are several that do not distinguish between the students with a string of As at GCSE and those who merely meet their minimum requirement. It's simply a tick box type question," does the applicant meet our minimum requirements?". " Yes or No", with there being absolutely NO advantage to having a string of As. ( This was for last year though so please double check.)

If you haven't done so already, try and get feedback from the Uni's as to why they rejected him.

I was very relieved that DS2 didn't want to do medicine, the whole medicine application system is too stressful for me.

Hope your son enjoys his gap year and gets in next year. Plenty of excellent students get rejected first time round.

I'm sure that not getting extra curricular experience till now will be fine if they like him. A simple " it was always at the back of my mind that I'd like to do it, but I didn't feel confident enough in my abilities, as the only students I had to compare my self with at a super selective grammar were extremely able. Having obtained my GCSE grades I realised that I really was sufficiently academic to be able to realise my dream" or similar!

DD1 has a mate at Imperial doing medicine who decide after AS to apply and got in without any extra stuff at all.I know this isn't the norm though.

Has OP mentioned her DS being at a superselective grammar? Even if he was, flagging it up in a PS in the way you suggest Theas could be the kiss of death: it suggests insularity ('the only students I had to compare myself to' etc.) which is not great at all for a wannabe doctor. A lack of confidence (again, not great: if a doctor is taking out the wrong kidney I'd at least like to feel he was confident that what he was doing wrong was in fact right). A lack of political acumen. And disingenuity.

Probably going to start a whole other debate
DS is totally state educated.
And has been encouraged to aim high all the way with his medicine ambitions at his wonderful comprehensive school.

Why would that start another debate?

Agree Yellow as if a DC has the grades for medicine apply..... It is worrying that parents think their wonderful comprehensive school will automatically disadvantage their DC..... These views are then passed onto their DC which can affect confidence etc