what magical ingredients does a prospective medical student need to get an offer

[wheredidyoulastseeit]

my son did'nt get an offer this year,
so far he has predicted grades of A and A* English Chem, Bio helps out with a youth group, Duke of Edinburgh silver, 1 week work experience in hospital, has part time job in a shop, Biology prefect at school, also sports leader in school. UKCAT score 720. what does the lazy layabout need to do to get a look in?

More work experience is my guess - in a care home or similar. And a bit of luck versus the other zillion students like him!

Did he get any interviews?

More work experience over a longer period would be good. My DD volunteered at the local community hospital and went in for a few hours every week for over a year. She also helped out at a special needs charity camp, so got a wider range of experience, and I think it helped because she could talk about what she had learned.
My other thought is his personal statement... all potential med students are A/A* grades, it goes without saying.. but has he really sold himself? Does his statement reflect his passion for the subject? Does it relate the experiences he has had with youth group etc, to the qualities necessary for being a doctor?

I know the different universities look for different qualities, but one thing my DD1 found was that they were less interested in a list of achievements than what she had learned from her experiences (for example.. pushing tea trolleys to old ladies in the hospital wasn't exciting, but experiencing dementia first and overcoming her nervousness at communicating with the patients was something she could talk about)

Generally if the academics are fine and obviously his UKCAT was fab, then I'm guessing it's the work experience and/or personal Statement that needs a bit more oomph.

Incidentally how were his GCSEs? My DD didn't know, before applying , that certain universities want a specific number of A grades at GCSE before they even look at the rest.. it ruled out one that she had applied for.

BUT tell him not to be downhearted. My DD1 is now near the end of her 2nd year of medicine. She had one offer..and was amazed to get that, given that 60% of applicants don't get any, and when she went off to University she was surprised to find that as an 18 year old she was very much in the majority. An AWFUL lot of students had taken several years to get a place..all fantastic students who were just unlucky first time round. Get him doing more varied experience, and look at the PS and he will get there:):)

belgo yes one interview. he said all the other students there were equally delightful, well mannered bright young things so there can't have been much to choose from between them all.
The PS statement was fab according to the teacher who gave references but i did feel it was tweaked slightly to reflect the fantastic facilities in her department

GSCES AND AS not too great for a medical students 3 A* 7a and 2bs
AS 4As and 1b

I think he needs to get more relevant work experience, but has been told by a care agencies to wait until he is 18 before they will look at him, (August baby). Think he was not focused enough on the right work/volunteering experience. Incidentally being a doctor was his idea, and maybe we should have been involved in his choice of volunteering, we thought working with children would have been good enough.

I wonder if the A-Level combination is the problem? Perhaps the Universities would prefer another science subject or maths instead of English (and bear in mind that some applicants will have four A-levels, all sciency). Has he thought about graduate entry (ie. a biology or biomedical sciences degree followed by the postgraduate medical course?). My cousin didn't get onto a medical undergraduate course and went down this route instead. He built up a good CV before applying to the graduate programme, doing voluntary work in the UK and abroad during his summer vacations.

My friend worked as a weekend ward cleaner whilst she was at sixth form. The university she got into LOVED it as she had experience of working in a sensitive environment, building rapport with patients, experience of following protocols, and just having experience in a hospital environment.

His achievements are very good in general terms, but tbh to be expected for a medical applicant. I agree that more work experience is a good idea, and spending time thinking about what that experience has done for him.

Has he had practice with whatever interview/selection process the medical school he is applying to are using?

Sorry for your DS OP, he doesn't sound lazy.

The one friend of DS1 who has had four offers first time around this year from a mix of universities has every single box ticked: 12 A* at GCSE, regular work in a hospice, grade 8 instrument, senior prefect, exceptional character.

I can't offhand think of another full hand offeree that any of my DC have known over the past few years.

The problem is that the level of competition has become so great that the academic standard seems to be taken as read and the universities can look to the other stuff as a tie breaker. Clearly the UKCAT was very good. I'd say bump up the work experience since he can't boost his GCSEs or pluck a grade 8 out of the air and he'll obv. be going all out on his grades. And perfect his personal statement and hone his interview skills while he waits for interview offers to roll in.

thanks Yellow, I don't really thinks he's lazy, I was being flippant as he works really hard, it just seems that he might as well as not bothered doing anything - apart from the fact he actually really enjoys his volunteering and job. Yes and the one thing comming from these lovely replies is that quality of work experience is the thing.

I dont think that time spent helping with the youth group is time wasted, but he needs to think about what it has taught him. He does need a bit more health care experience too.

I'm afraid his GCSEs and ASs are probably the killer. I've done admissions in several universities and am married to someone who does admissions for medicine. They can usually fill their quotas with students who have straight As/A*s at GCSE without any problem. The Bs will automatically raise questions.

It could also be his BMAT.

I know it's very tough but to be brutally honest he's sitting pretty average at the moment. He really needs to enhance his work experience, whether that be working in a care home (which should accept from sixteen onwards, well, did when I was 16) or volunteering for charities. A week in a hospital is very much at the lower end of the scale of what's deemed necessary.

I would also get someone else to read over his PS - I was amazed by some of the stuff that made it through, varying from stuff littered with spelling/grammar errors to statements blatantly written by parents/teachers. Also look at where he's applying and what are their main interests - I went to a fairly science heavy med school where English a level would have been frowned upon.

Having said all that, you have my sympathies. It is much much harder now than when I applied and although it's been awhile since I've sat on interview panels, I was constantly amazed by the high calibre of students. If he is thinking of doing another and then going into medicine, you might want to have a chat about the differences between graduate entry and entering med school as a mature student. The former is even more incredibly competitive and the level of competition humbling. The latter is more accepting and having a degree puts you streets ahead of the alevel students (but is a longer course).

Good luck anyway!

Unfortunately his GCSEs are on the low side, though they may be mitigated by the average grades of his school. Since there's nothing he can do about those now though he needs to concentrate on the things he can do to boost his application. He might also be advised to perhaps make three med school applications and use his fourth and fifth choices elsewhere.

what a bananas system!

I'm not so sure about the English holding him back: DS has got offers this year from 'science heavy' unis and they seem fine about History tbh.

southeastastra - how? and how should it be done differently?

The standard is just really really high, and so they have to pick the top from everyone who applies. Everyone has the A's, Work exp, DoE etc. They cant all get in, so there has to be some selection within that.
Different medical schools do slant it slightly differently in terms of how they prioritise applicants.

I know someone who applied for medicine three years ago but didn't get a place so studied Biomedical Sciences and is on course to get a first in the summer. He also had A-levels in Biology, Chemistry and English, and fairly mediocre GCSEs (for the standard required for med school) with only one A but I think that was largely due to his school, as he was still one of the highest achievers there. He reapplied for graduate entry next year but still* hasn't got a place due to the overwhelming competition. He plans to take a year out gaining suitable work experience and have another go for 2013.

Contrasted with my DD's experience for veterinary medicine, also extremely competitive - she didn't get a place first time around so took a gap year, picked up some interesting experience and went from 0/4 interviews to 3/4 second time around, with an offer to start at Bristol in October. She was disappointed not to be offered a place straight after leaving school but never entertained the idea of doing a "second best" option such as Bioveterinary Sciences or Zoology, choosing instead to go all out for what she wanted and it paid off in the end. You have to remember that there are financial implications to taking a second degree course - there are no government loans available, although I think the situation for medicine is different as the NHS helps...but as someone mentioned above, the competition at that level is so much stronger. I think it is really worth taking a year out and reapplying as this shows determination, dedication and focus...it certainly worked for my DD. Good luck!

medical schools vary a lot and they don't all require masses of As at GSCE. Some do, though, so he needs to chose carefully where to apply. The Student Room website is a good, and mainly accurate, source of advice but he should check the medical schools own websites too. If he doesn't have A maths and physics GSCE they may think him a little science lite - what is his AS? There is at least one med school that like a non-science A level, can't remember which but the student room wiki will tell him. His UKCAT is good, if he does as well this year.

Assuming he gets his 3A grades and he really wants to be a doctor he should reapply. My impression is that reapplicants do better - med schools know that many A level predictions are overestimates and it shows dedication. He should try for work experience with a gp to round out his experience. He might be able to get a job in the NHS or a care home if he's taking a gap year, that would help too. There is an NHS job website. Good luck.

I suspect that the biggest issue is his lack of work experience. He needs more, both in terms of length and breadth. I believe med schools particularly like people who have worked as an HCA in a hospital (Healthcare Assistant - they do all the nitty gritty that nurses used to do but don't now), but he could also try getting work experience in old people's homes, hospices, doctors surgeries etc.

UCL is the med school that says that they positively like a non-science a'level along side the chem and bio.

Really bad luck - your poor son. Everyone knows that this process is a lottery but he must give himself every chance of getting in next time round by ticking every single box and jumping through every single hoop:

1. Work like stink and get the best possible grades he can in his A2s. He needs AAA minimum. There will be reapplicants with A*s so he must pull out all the stops for these exams

1. As soon as exams are over, get a job as a Health Care Assistant at your local hospital for the forthcoming year. Start as soon as poss after exams so as to have had as much time in the role as poss before submitting his UCAS in October

1. Has he already been working towards his Gold DofE? Can he get the expeditions/ residential done this summer and get the award completed for the next PS. If he is going to do this - do the residential as a volunteer/ helper at a camp for people with disabilities or special needs to have more experience in this area

1. Network like mad, pull every string and chat as many people up as possible to get shadowing experience for as much time as poss - not just consultants and GPs but physios, dentists, dieticians, occupational health, nurses etc. Aim for four weeks shadowing for the next PS

1. As soon as exams are finished start volunteering - weekly - in either a care home or a club for people with disabilities or learning difficulties

1. Get as much advice as possible from teachers and careers advisors (not just the ones at his school) and medical professionals and families of current medical students when writing the PS. Make sure it's "I learned X from Y" not just "I did Y"

1. Apply tactically:

Well done on an excellent UKCAT - practice hard again and don't let the mark slip next year. If he does well again, perhaps think about applying to Sheffield.

You don't mention the BMAT - it's a risk, applying to a BMAT uni because you don't take the test until November and the UCAS has to be in 15 October but if your son is good at these sorts of test, it might be worth applying to one of them - perhaps UCL or Imperial.

Good luck to him. If he is absolutely focussed on being a doctor, he will make it happen.

UTR you recommend applying tactically: is it a good use of a choice to apply to UCL or Imperial with 3A? I would be wary. OP's son performed exceptionally well in the UKCAT, surely he should focus more on the universities which require UKCAT but aren't overly obsessed with A at GCSE?

Fair comment yellowtip. Is your son a medic/ medical applicant?

He applied last year UTR. It proved a sharp learning curve!