Top universities and only 3 A2s

[PaulaYatesbiggestfan]

Does anyone know if any universities are planning on changing their admissions policy in favour of four A2

DC1 did a ridiculous number of A2 s and ended up at his university of choice but not before he had wondered if he had taken on more than necessary.

With DC2 and then 3 coming to make the same choices now I am wondering whether or not they should take the 4A2 and then drop the softer choice at AS

This sounds logical - but could the wind change and some top RG places start making offers based on four where 3 just won't do??

Thus will they be disadvantaging themselves from the outset - or will three do for the foreseeable future?

Thank you so much webwiz! Will pass on your and your dd's experience to dd

adamschic. Sorry if the post was unclear. The thread is about three A2's as against four. Just that there are games players out there who might think it's easy to start doing four at A2 and then drop the fourth after offers come in. That's not implying anyone on the thread might think like that but clearly some students do.

Paula. State grammar here too. So far the three who've done UCAS have been up against peers doing four and still held their own. My next one (Year 12) is doing four because he wants to and probably can without feeling under pressure or letting quality dip down. He's also doing three sciences and only one essay based subject (history) which helps. I think it's whatever lets them show their ability best(and have a life), without getting too wound up about numbers.

yellowstone - i think it is because DS did 6 A2s and got a wee bit over wrought towards the end

he thinks things might have been easier if he'd done less and does have friends whose offers were 2A* and 2A ( harsh!)

I was reading the MN oxbridge thread though and someone mentioned a girl who had been offered 3A* ( i think it was cambs pool)

the whole thing scares me - and it's not even me doing it

6 A2's? Can't even think about it. Why would he do that? 'A wee bit'? Mine would never, ever have coped and I wouldn't want them to have tried. But they're still at Oxford, so on most measures fine. I suppose some at our school have done six (including General Studies) but they've all been right off the scale. Unless I was sure that my child was off the scale I'd say only do what you feel you can comfortably do, no point killing yourself. But all credit etc.

It's really difficult to know for sure isn't it? The worry is that for some very competitive courses someone with 4+ A2s will be ranked above someone with 3 (assuming that they also had the opportunity to take 4), so if there are sizeable numbers of applicants applying with 4 and you have had the opportunity to take 4 then the worry is that they will think worse of you if you don't. I know a girl who took 4 subjects and her offer was specific to 3 subjects who thought maybe it would have been easier if she'd only taken 3, but who also wondered if she would have got the offer at all in that case - it was for Nat Sci and Cambridge do state that "Many students take four of Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, Further Mathematics and Physics" so if you're at a school where some people do take 4 subjects it's a tough decision.

Yes it is not clear at all. I understand what Adamschic means in that three should be enough and will be, if, like Yellowstone's children, you are clearly bright and interview well. Many good universities don't interview though, so on paper, does 4 look better?

Also, how do you decide if you are "intelligent" and need only do three as this will shine through, or "less intelligent" and therefore need the apparent boost given by doing 4 to show you have the stamina. To distinguish like this, even if it were possible, is a contradiction isn't it?

And what advice do people have about the Extended Project?

I went on the AQA training sessions for the EPQ and saw some really fabulous projects. At our posh indie partner school most of the students do one and it is linked with what they will possibly apply for in uni. 7 students did it in our pilot year the keenies really thrive on it but those who need a lot of support do struggle. Some were asked about it at the uni interview and one was asked to send in his report.

The 7 all did four AS, followed by 3 A2 and this was declared on the UCAS application. None of ours claim that they are doing 4 at A2 and then 'mysteriously' drop an A2 when they get offers.

The EPQ ran from Feb to November. I think it is good because it gives the student an opportunity to shine beyond some of the dry A2 syllbus.

Thank you happilyconfused!

DS2 did the EPQ.
He started to write it in the summer holiday between Yr 12 and Yr 13. He was at a local, very well regarded 6th form college after attending our local comprehensive.
He did the project on 'Government intervention or free market approach to get UK out of recession'.
This project basically buggered up his summer holiday that year. He spent hours on it. One of the books he got from the library hadn't been taken out for 30 years!
He was an Oxford candidate and all of the Oxbridge candidates were expected to do an EPQ. He was asked nothing about his EPQ at Oxford interview, which was a shame and he didn't get in anyway.
He had an interview at his 6th form college re EPQ and it was all handed in, but when all the other students got their results last spring, he didn't get a result----- the college had lost his project, his name wasn't found on the list of projects that had been sent away for marking. The college were pretty mortified!
He had to resubmit it. It was all on the computer except for his hand written diary (that he never photocopied before submitting). This was a bit of a worry for him as the diary also carried marks, but he managed to pull it together.
He got the marks for it on A level results day last August and got an
A star for it. I was extremely thrilled for him. It was an awful lot of work and he never thought he would get that grade.
I think the EPQ does help students stand out and it's also probably good practice for what university will be like, as it is all your own research and has to be 5000 words and as it was over the summer, although the students supposedly have a mentor, there was in fact very little input from anyone else except DS into his EPQ

It is easier to drop Further Maths than it is to opt into it after the course has started so, if in doubt, it's better to start the course.

Most universities don't count it as an extra A level but beware, the offers are made for A levels taken at the same sitting.

My DD got three offers, two of which were for three A levels including FM but one was for two subjects only, Chemistry and German, because they 'counted' her Maths A level from the year before.

From the Oxford University admissions FAQ here in response to the question: Should I take more than 3 A levels?

"All courses at Oxford are very competitive, and offers are likely to be for three A grades at A-Level. Some candidates take a fourth or even fifth subject, as this can be one way of demonstrating the academic abilities that will be required for the intense studying of an Oxford degree.
However, taking extra A-Levels is certainly not the only way to demonstrate your abilities. Tutors would prefer a candidate who has read around their subject beyond their school or college work, and who shows a great passion for their subject, over a candidate who may have taken more subjects, but who is not able to discuss their interests with any enthusiasm or in any depth.

We also advise candidates not to spread themselves too thinly across too many subjects, where they may risk dropping a grade or two in their results. Three A grades would be sufficient to meet most conditional offers, but two As and two Bs would not."

And from the Cambridge University admissions section here There's a paper talking about the EPQ and also one from 2006 about number of A levels in which they state there is academic value in taking 4 subjects for mathematical and science courses (not for others) and that in the main they view further maths as a fourth subject, only accepting it as one of three where a school can't provide more and even then with reservations.

They also touch on whether exams need to be taken at one sitting saying:

"We have previously asked for all three of the usually required A levels to be taken at one sitting, but are now content if an approach tailored to the needs of individual students and their schools means that some A levels are taken early. "

Quite interesting and helpful, but if unless all universities take the same stance, can still leave a student unsure on the best path to take.

Bearcat, What a shame about the lost work. I hope your son is enjoying it wherever he has ended up. How many A2 s did your son take in addition to the EPQ?

Snorkie, thank you for the information. I don't know whether I am being unfair, but I'm not always sure whether to take the web information at face value, even when it is from the horse's mouth. The universities have to be seen to be fully inclusive and make at efforst to show this. But in reality, admissions tutors understandably have their own views and opinions, biases and prejudices, when faced with different candidates. There is often helpful advice given by tutors on here but it often is not uniform. Just one example: the Cambridge website cites RS as a 'good' A level, but an Oxford Tutor on another thread has warned against it. What to think?

DS2 went to Nottingham and is really enjoying it ( DS1 went there too and loved it)
DS2 did 4 A levels in history, economics, maths and further maths and got A star, AAA in that order

Carmenetonense, there clearly is an inherent contradiction: the ones most likely to 'need a boost' are those whose grades at GCSE are less stellar yet those are the students most likely to struggle with the extra work and so predudice their grades at A2.

Mine applied to four other universities each of course, all RG or equivalent, none of which interviewed and all of which made offers. The fact of three A2's really didn't seem to make a difference.

The younger two did the EPQ. Very worthwhile. Neither were asked about it at interview but that combination, three A2's plus the EPQ, is what I hope all my younger ones will do and I believe it's the combination which will give them the best chance of getting some depth and getting any A*'s they are capable of/ may need.

carmen I think it would be very difficult politically for a university to say we want 4 A levels when some children don't have that opportunity and they are trying to widen access, so from that perspective you are probably right to be slightly cautious about what's written. I do think though that they are being honest when they say there are other ways to demonstrate academic abilities - what a potential applicant needs to realise that just doing 3 A levels well in the absence of anything else (wider reading/OU courses or whatever) may not be enough.

Thank you everyone for all the information.

My son did the epq and his six a2s . He did v little for the epq just wrote up some work experience he did in a university lab iirc. I am pretty sure it was epq .... It was certainly not a stress though

Will read the rest later -on phone now- and thank you all later the advice on skimming looks great. Thanks

ok first I was wrong my son did not so the EPQ as i said earlier. In fact he said lots of students at his school did do it but he ( to quote his text!) thought he would regret doing it and a lot did regret it! When I said why did you not do it he replied 'would have failed the rest of my A levels' !!!

Any way what he DID do was a OU YASS module (young applicants in schools scheme). That was what he seemed to run off in a weekend. no idea if it got him where he wanted to be but it probably helped!

Am going to research careers in engineering for DD to help her clarify if she wants to take the physics/further maths route or stick with just maths A2 chemistry and biology. I feel so ill equipped at times. She asked me about engineering tonight and i had no answers so 'must try harder'

Snorkie - have quoted your posts to DP today really very very helpful advice on here I cannot thnk you all enough. it would take me forever to get the breadth of information I am getting here.

an OU module not a!

DS1 started year 13 doing 4 A levels. Out of 5 offers 2 specified the subjects that had to have those grades which was a nuisance. By march and having firmed his choices he decided to drop the 4th. The school would only let him drop it after he had emailed the admissions and been given permission to carry on with 3. This he did and it was fine. But it was otally unnecessary for him to do 4.

These are exactly the two pitfalls I mentioned unless a student is strong in all four and dead set on doing all four - grades for specific subjects/ universities sometimes insisting on carrying on all four even though offers are based on three.

This is a really useful thread as my DS is considering the same issue. At present he is in year 12 and taking the approach to carry on with four subjects and review matters after the summer results. If they're stellar, he wants to continue all four. If they're less than stellar, he'll drop one.

Does anyone have experience of how big a step up it is, in science, from AS to A2 please? If its a big step up, then I'm tempted to think dropping one would be wiser.

BTW my DD is at Cambridge and did 4 ASs then dropped to 3 A2s. That was partly because she had not enjoyed one of her ASs and partly because she was also continuing with 3 musical instruments up to grade 8 and also a new GCSE taken up in the 6th form

It sounds like a sensible approach sandripples - wanting to continue them seems like a good reason to me. DS says A2 chem is a bit harder than AS but not hugely so (he's finding the difficulty about the same, but that's due to the way he's being taught this year). Can't speak for other sciences yet, and no idea if it varies by syllabus either.