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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Tell me about Oxbridge please.

70 replies

EccentricaGallumbits · 01/11/2010 17:38

I don't get it and DD1 has just announced I will need to.

different colleges for different stuff? how would you choose? Different application process? Extra good grades needed? I went to a polytechnic new university. I know nothing.

OP posts:
notcitrus · 01/11/2010 19:33

I went to Cambridge and in my first year we had one tutor of the 'rip to shreds' variety, who happened to have been at Oxford for the last decade. But she was ripping us rather than the arguements to shreds so we ended up telling her to get stuffed. All other tutors were like you'd expect - checking we'd understood material covered in lectures, giving feedback on essays, working through problems liek we'd get in exams, etc. This is science though - arts subjects are a bit more like the stereotype rip-to-shreds.

Cambridge is essentially like other unis only you have to apply earlier, and pick a college (or go for the 'pool', ie random allocation), which is essentially a glorified hall of residence for your three years. If you do sciences and have hobbies that are uni-wide rather than college-based (so drama, orienteering rather than choir or popular sports), it really makes no difference, as you can study a subject at any college.

And there's more work. In my first year I did as much chemistry as friends doing it at other unis, but it was only one of my 3 NatSci options. And lectures on Saturdays. They don't tell you about that beforehand.

On the plus side (Cam and Ox), very cheap rent for all three years, great facilities, long holidays helping you get good jobs in the holidays, and a great bunch of people. And some Hooray Henrys, but you can avoid them. Or get in with them and end up taking over the country...Hmm

mummytime · 01/11/2010 19:57

See if her school does a visit to Oxford or Cambridge (or both), or take her there yourself. They do start visiting from year 10. If she goes to a school which doesn't usually send there then they may even give her a special visit.

exexpat · 01/11/2010 20:05

There are also outreach programs for children from schools with little history of Oxbridge applications or for ethnic minorities, I think. I've also heard about summer school programmes - might be worth looking at in a year or two when her plans are clearer.

Will you be taking a special interest in Douglas Adams' old college, Eccentrica?

wolfbrother · 01/11/2010 20:08

wigeon, do you know whether your scary tutor was related to this smiley tutor?

EccentricaFFFFFFFFFFFFFTBANG · 01/11/2010 20:09

I think school will have something available. will keep an eye out.

DD doesn't share my love of HHGTTG yet. I'm working on her though.

NoahAndTheWhale · 01/11/2010 21:27

Hello Wigeon :)

Forget you went to Cambridge (well didn't forget but was focusing on my side of family Grin. And maths. Maybe this was where I went wrong. Should have applied to do that instead).

Wigeon · 01/11/2010 21:37

Wolfbrother - no, didn't know that - are they married? She really was quite scary (but I was Tough and didn't let her intimidate me!). I know she had children so presumably someone penetrated her terrifying exterior long enough to conceive the two of them!

Eccentrica - didn't you know that all Oxbridge interviews start with the question "What was Ford's surname?" and if you can't answer you get sent home immediately? Better tell your DD right away. Wink.

Noah - well, it's not as if we spend much time talking to each other about the universities we went to!!

GallumDrawnAndQuartered · 02/11/2010 07:12

AHAH! I know that one.

frakkinstein · 02/11/2010 07:21

Wigeon I didn't get asked that! I got asked why it was acceptable for someone to change the colour of their car which sat on the driveway but not the colour of the front door on their listed building....

And it continued in that vein for an hour. I decided it didn't like that guy (who would have been my tutor for the 3 years) so prayed I'd get pooled and rejected them when I didn't. Cambridge and I were fundamentally incompatible.

So get your DD to choose her college and therefore tutors carefully. Go and meet them beforehand!

What subject does she want to do?

sarah293 · 02/11/2010 08:09

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Butterbur · 02/11/2010 08:21

NoahandtheWhale, you can study chemistry at Cambridge, as in fact I did, many years ago. The Natural Science Tripos contains modules of different science subjects, and you take your pick - 3 modules in the first year, three more specialised modules in the second year, and specialise in your third. I just don't have a chemistry degree on paper, but a Natural Sciences one.

NoahAndTheWhale · 02/11/2010 08:28

Sorry, my post wasn't too clear - I meant you couldn't study it on its own. I did apply for Natural Sciences and ended up studying Chemistry somewhere else :)

NoahAndTheWhale · 02/11/2010 08:29

My granny would never believe that Geography was a real subject as you couldn't study it when she was at Cambridge but as that was early 1930s I am pretty sure things have changed a bit.

usernamechanged345 · 02/11/2010 08:30

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sarah293 · 02/11/2010 08:43

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AvengingGerbil · 02/11/2010 08:49

If you go to Oxbridge, you MAY get taught by world-renowned experts.

On the other hand, you are just as likely to be sent to a graduate student or junior research fellow for at least some of your tutorials.

The 'big names' often just swoop in, deliver the occasional lecture and swoop out again. The gap between 'teaching fellows' who carry the burden of college teaching, administration, committees and so on (who have very little time for all that world-astonishing research) and the Reseach fellows who don't have the teaching duties and hence can do the research has been getting wider for years.

And there are lots of world-renowned experts teaching in non-Oxbridge universities.

(I went to both...)

larrygrylls · 02/11/2010 08:52

There are some great posts above but also some weird ones about lots of money, drugs.

I went to Christs in Cambridge to study natural sciences. I went around with a broadly middle class crowd who went to a mixture of public and state schools. There was a fair amount of alcohol but I never came across drugs at all. This was, however, 1983-1986, so a fair while ago.

The system is collegiate and the colleges are, as someone described above, glorified halls of residence, where one does one's tutorials, at least in the early years. As one specialises more, one has to go to other colleges for some tutorials. The advantage of the college system is, on the whole, that is where people form friendships. My Cambridge friends are, even 25 years later, my best friends and I see a group of them regularly.

The colleges do, however, have some slants. For instance, Downing is known to be sporty and especially good for rowing. My old college, Christs, is now v academic (wasn't especially back then) and there are some v large colleges (Kings, Trinity) and some much smaller ones (Claire, Trinity Hall). You have to find one which matches your daughter's character and interests.

In my day (and I think it is still the same), you applied to a college within Cambridge and had to give 3 choices. I was told to not choose 3 top colleges as the 2nd and 3rd choice will reject automatically as a matter of pride. The further out newer colleges (Robinson and Churchill) used to be good options for 2nd and 3rd choices)

I am afraid that I cannot tell you much about Oxford at all.

hildathebuilder · 02/11/2010 09:19

My DH is an academic at one of these universities. He is not at all scary. He is actually quite nice and reasonable. Every year he interviews about 60 potential candidates for his college, and subject. He sometimes interviews as a second interviewer for other subjects and other colleges(they need to double up to protect themselves from some of the compliants I have heard about when they reject people). I know someone who went into an interview and the door handle fell off. the candidate thought it was deliberate. It wasn't it just fell off. When academics interview that many people they do not have the time to come up with trick questions and scenarios. There is nothing in it for them or the candidate so they don't do it!

He does not ask about Ford. He asks fairly sensible and wide ranging questions about the subject (which in his case he does not need people to have studied before). He wants to see if applicants can think for themselves, and follow a line of argument through. He sometimes makes the subjects he asks about political, sometimes quirky he doesn't care what people say he just wants to know whether they can think and justify what they say. He has a world view but he only care if others can justify what they think not what he does.

Before the interview he reads the application forms. He highlights some bits mainly to give him ideas about what to talk about for 20 minutes. If a candidate has said that they have read his book he ignores it. If they mention another book he will usually ask about it to see what they thought (and or check they are telling the truth). He does look at grades at GCSE and A level, and particularly modules If the candidates have As and A*s that will usually do him and not be enough to differentiate in the same way as an interview. If they have some Bs he is happy with that too. they are on small part of the picture (albeit an important one)

His college usually has a high number of applicants to places. He regularly goes to the pool though if he does not think the applicants are of a high enough standard.

He really does not care whether students did D of E, play sport, play a musical instrument, etc. I think that last point is the main difference between oxford, cambridge and everywhere else.

When students are accepted to colleges can be high pressure. My course back in the early 90s had a lot my content than other universities did. Many more lectures and tutorials. But it also had a lot more support, financial and emotional.

My DH is a pastoral tutor. In the last few years he has visitied students in hospitals, he has arranged counselling for students, he has tracked down funds for students, he has broken up parties and done countless more things besides. He listened to students and talked them through exam and other worries at the time his step father was diagnosed with a terminal illness and just wanted to tell them it wasn't that important. Ditto when I had a miscarriage. Ditto when our son was in hospital. He remembers what its like when it feels like the only thing that matters were the grades. Sometimes he even tells students what grades he got in the 80s (which were not all firsts)

As I said he is not scary and if students get in, and they chose to access it the support is wonderful. But like all places there are some people you like, and some you don't. They are some good influences and some bad. Personally I know fair more hooray henrys and people who went to private schools through my work than I ever met at my college.

sethstarkaddersmum · 02/11/2010 09:38

'He really does not care whether students did D of E, play sport, play a musical instrument, etc. I think that last point is the main difference between oxford, cambridge and everywhere else. '

I always think this is the biggest myth about Oxbridge - ie this idea that as well as having top grades you have to have grade 8 violin and DofE gold as well to stand a chance of getting in.
In fact when you get there you are surrounded by people who have got grade 8 at an instrument and have done various other things but it is not an entry requirement, just that Oxbridge tends to be full of very motivated energetic people (and often ones who have never had to get a part-time job) so they just happen to have pursued lots of other stuff. The colleges are far more interested in your ability and commitment in the subject you're applying for.

30andMerkin · 02/11/2010 10:25

Your DH sounds great hilda. I think I was unlucky in many respects with my most influential tutor. He is, quite simply, a prize nob. He was very into the academic infighting with other well-published dons in his field, constantly belittling their arguments in our tutorials (even if in a finals exam, they would have been good arguments to reference).

He also made a lot of sneery comments about how easy we had it, yet once ranted to me and my tute partner about how another student in our group had been 'playing at being a waitress' during summer holidays. Er, no, she was earning money to eat Hmm.

I think he'd spent a little too long amongst the ivory towers.

However, I remember more of what he told me than any other tutor or lecturer in my three years there, and he made me produce some of my best ever writing. So I suppose I've got to thank him. But I am bloody grateful he didn't do my entrance interview!

frakkinstein · 02/11/2010 11:06

hilda I sincerely wish I'd been interviewed by your DH. As it was all I would say to anyone considering Oxbridge is do your research and find out who your tutors are likely to be!

aquamortis · 02/11/2010 11:24

great post hilda. I'll second everything said there about admissions interviews, which extends to tutorials too (usually).

I would give three pieces of advice to your dd eccentrica.

First, do your research to unravel the different courses. It doesn't matter which college you apply to, really (it should tell you something that most students would say their own is the best! and lots of people make 'open' applications these days, and get allocated a college), but you really should work out if the course is right for you.

Second, it's quite true that gold D of E/grade 8 flute/model UN really don't matter all that much. The criteria for admission are ACADEMIC, and extra-curricular stuff is only really of (faint) interest as a guide to motivation, self-discipline, etc. Far, far more useful for admissions (although I would hate to discourage anyone from pursuing genuine interests: just don't expect them to make much difference to your application) is reading around your subject. Think about why you find your subject interesting. Go beyond the school syllabus. Read books. Read more books.

Finally, ignore the absurd myths about what happens at admissions interviews/in tutorials/among your fellow students. Most people here are normal, interesting, and wonderfully committed to their subjects. And all we care about at admissions is your academic potential and aptitude.

hildathebuilder · 02/11/2010 12:52

I will just add a couple of other comments. My DH sometimes makes comments about prospective students failing the common sense test. For example if your DD wants to know whether she really needs to attend lectures at 9 am, tutorials, saturday morning classes etc - she should ask another student not the academic who determines whether she should get a place. Similarly any questions about student life as suh, drinking, parties, societies etc

(My Dh rarely attended any lectures when he was a student and tries hard to have them timetabled at 9 now he's an academic, he's sympathetic to the point of view that sometimes there are better things to do, but there's a time and a place to say it)

Also if you've been asked to read, or do soemthing before the interview do so! If you aren't sure what its for ask beforehand not when you turn up.

sethstarkaddersmum · 02/11/2010 13:41

'Also if you've been asked to read, or do soemthing before the interview do so!'

LOL, that was my dh's bugbear when he was interviewing as well. You would think anyone who was bright enough and keen enough to be applying for Oxbridge would have gone to the trouble of reading the thing they ask, properly (ie not just saying 'yes I have read it' but then being unable to say anything about it) but amazingly a lot of them don't Confused

sieglinde · 02/11/2010 14:00

Hi, I am an Oxford tutor. People exaggerate. Yes, it's academically tough, but despite the Fear Factor, a lot of people love it.

It is not in any way too early because your dd needs to pick her A-levels carefully.

ABSOLUTELY DON'T DO ANY OF THESE

The evil dead list of A-Levels. Law, psychology, RS, theatre studies, media studies, business studies, and ESPECIALLY anything occupational like Travel and Tourism.

Lawyers reject law even more than other people do. But if you ring central admissions they will give you the pc answer that all these are all right really. But they aren't all right because the college tutor will run a biro through your name.

You need 3 As in good straight subjects like English, History, classical lnaguage (no - NOT Classical civ) a modern language, maths, physics...

You also need 5 or ideally more A stars at GCSE. Forget the tiddlywinks club presidency. You need to be nerdily obsessed with whatever subject it is. Oxbridge doesn't like or understand 'well-rounded'. It helps if you like to argue and are good at it.

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