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Guest post: "The traditional school system is effectively a sausage factory"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 23/09/2015 10:01

I watched my 15-year-old daughter walk into a classroom for the first time this month. While most other parents dropped off their four-year-olds for day one of school, I waved off the daughter I had, until now, been educating at home.

My daughter had made her own decision, and for her own reasons she put on a uniform and joined our local school in year 11. I, meanwhile, will continue to home educate my 12-year-old and five-year-old. My three-year-old won't be going to preschool.

And so, while many parents are sharing pictures and anecdotes of their child's first month at school at the moment, a growing number aren't. We are choosing, instead, to home-school.

In my view, the traditional school system is effectively a sausage factory. No matter how much is said about individualised or child-led systems, the nature of the beast is that it's mass processing. I wanted my children to have time to be children, and time to be themselves. Individuals.

The rise in this movement is perhaps driven in part by changes to the education system, but also, I suspect, because it is now so easy to network. There are national and local Facebook groups, and depending on where you are, lots of groups meeting up.

Home education is easiest with younger children - there's lots of outside play, lots of art, craft, and stories. There are so many resources now that primary age education is very achievable either following a structured school-at-home model, or completely following your child's interests or, as is most likely, doing something in between. That's my approach with my younger ones - the five-year-old is very interested in art and nature, and I've picked up great nature resources very cheaply in Lidl. We do some semi-formal activity most mornings - I'm also Montessori trained and use these resources regularly too. Afternoons are more free format.


I'm a lot more relaxed and confident with the younger two than I was first time round. There were all sorts of panics about learning to read with my eldest, as we felt it was the central skill. Now though, I know most children get there when they're ready, and that happens at varying ages. So as long as I'm making sure we're offering the chance to develop skills, I don't worry about ticking off any age related boxes.

Questions about academic issues tend to come later in the age range, and I will admit that qualifications can be the issue. There are courses that can be studied from home, and there's a thriving support network helping families find examination centers that will take private candidates. If any government was serious about helping home educators, they could make a single change to say that every area should have at least one state school that will take private candidates, Having details of the exam boards on a central website would also make life easier.

Qualifications are why my daughter has chosen to go to school. She believes it will be easier to follow courses done with her peers, and for her, I think it's the right choice. She is finding the organisational aspects of school more challenging than the academic side and she does have an uneven level of learning, being advanced in English and creatively, but not having covered all the maths she needs. But we are well placed to support her through that.

My 12-year-old, however, is determined that he won't go to school for any reason. He's already started to prepare for the maths and computing qualifications that will suit him, and in a year or so, I'll be hunting for one of those exam centers.

Home education was a philosophical choice for me and something I considered before I had children. I discovered the potential while on a teacher training course back in the 90s. Once we had children I looked into the subject further and found a wonderful network of early years home ed families, brought together by the Muddlepuddle email list as it was then - it is now the Early Years HE group on Yahoo. As well as the email list, there were local and national meetups and camps. There are now a number of national organisations too, such as the Home Education Advisory Service and Education Otherwise. Although home educators don’t have to follow the national curriculum, resources are available if they choose to.

My traditional teacher training (PGCE) is of next to no help as a home educator, as most of what you learn that way is about lesson planning and managing a classroom, although some of the incidental reading was interesting. My Montessori training and experience, however, is very useful, particularly with younger children, as it's all about practical hands on learning and seeing children as independent learners.

As for socialisation - yesterday we went to home education roller skating and soft play. Today my 12 -year-old will go to an after school hours computing club. My 15-year-old is (almost) struggling to fit school in around her other commitments - paper round, swim club, army cadets. On offer locally there are home education art sessions, forest schools, and a communal group where each family brings an activity.

Is home education for everyone? No, there's no one approach that suits every child or every family. But it's great to see a rising awareness of it and for people to know that they have choices. When it comes down to it, that's the important thing.

OP posts:
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IceBeing · 25/09/2015 00:51

We interviewed people about their experiences adapting to uni in year 1. And one person we spoke to was H ed. They seemed if anything bemused about the questions...they were already embedded in self motivated learning before they arrived while many of the school taught were struggling to adapt to setting their own timetabling and setting their own goals.

The home ed community is probably lies somewhere in between public and state schools from a diversity perspective.

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AbeSaidYes · 25/09/2015 00:53

Working and home EDing also raises the problem of expensive childcare.

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Kampeki · 25/09/2015 00:59

I would think that the transition to work might prove more challenging than the transition to university, although this would obviously depend on the type of job.

Many jobs, especially at entry level, don't allow for a great deal of autonomy. For someone who is used to setting their own schedule and priorities, I would think it might be a bit difficult to adapt to this environment. This might limit your options a bit.

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IceBeing · 25/09/2015 01:00

The home ed group my DD goes to has pretty strict rules and boundaries in some areas....like absolutely no division by gender of games and no division by age either.

One way in which school diversity is far far less is that children only really socialise with people exactly the same age as them. I think that is a real loss. Seeing kids of all ages interacting shows you how much they can learn from each other.

Schools could fix this by ditching the setting by age business but apparently don't.

Talking to people who run events for home ed kids in the area, they suggest one of the biggest differences is in confidence engaging with adults. In a school session, instructors spend a lot of time trying to engage the kids and get them to speak to them, ask questions etc. With the home ed groups it is if anything a non stop bombardment from the get go.

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IceBeing · 25/09/2015 01:06

kam I think that is a valid point....I think the one thing you learn at school that you likely won't at home ed is to 'sit down shut up and do what you are told'

Sometimes the real world of work does need that from people...but I am genuinely not sure how often.

Also wearing uniforms...it certainly does happen in some work - but I am not sure it is a very high percentage.

As for having to put up with people you dislike and have nothing in common with and who potentially bully you because of it for 6 hours a day...well at least a work you have something in common and employment laws to protect you from bullying. At least in real life you can pick friends outside of a group of 30 odd....

The classroom environment is really quite artificial wrt to real life in my opinion.

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Kampeki · 25/09/2015 01:14

One way in which school diversity is far far less is that children only really socialise with people exactly the same age as them. I think that is a real loss. Seeing kids of all ages interacting shows you how much they can learn from each other.

I often see this on these boards, and I really don't get it. Confused Why is it that so many HEers seem to think that kids don't mix with different age groups at school? In my experience, there is loads of interaction between the various different year groups.

As for talking to adults, I think that has more to do with personality and family background than the approach to education per se. My dd certainly doesn't need much encouragement! Wink

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IceBeing · 25/09/2015 01:22

Kam maybe things have changed...I didn't have any friends in my class at primary school and spending a few minutes of lunch time with some of the older/younger kids isn't the same as learning with them/from them.

At secondary I didn't know the names of anyone not in my year. I did have a few friends in class but also got quite heavily bullied.

You'd think from that that it was me driving home ed in my family but actually I always assumed DD would go to school and it has been my husband who has been adamant that DD wouldn't go to school unless she actually wanted to.

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IceBeing · 25/09/2015 01:23

kam kids definitely don't mix by gender. Walking past our local schools it is exclusively either girls in groups or boys in groups.

Pretty sad really.

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Kampeki · 25/09/2015 01:55

My dd certainly has friends who are both girls and boys. There was lots of mixing in reception and year 1/2, it did tail off a bit in year 3/4, but since year 5 they have all been friends again. Obviously, this would be different in a single sex school, which I'm not really in favour of.

As for the different year groups, I think things have changed enormously since I was at school. The mixing at dd's school happens formally through the curriculum as well as informally in the playground - there are plenty of opportunities for kids to learn together, and there are lots of links and mentoring arrangements between the older and younger children. For example, the older kids usually have younger "reading partners" who they work with on a regular basis. Over the years, dd's class have made maths games for the younger children, produced picture books for them, written instructions for stuff etc. This week, they have been researching and preparing PowerPoint presentations to deliver to a younger group about the topic that they are covering at the moment. The younger group is doing the same topic, and they will also be sharing their work.

Perhaps your perceptions of school are based on how things were when you were there. Of course, some schools might still be exactly as you describe, but it certainly hasn't been our experience. Quite the contrary.

I do understand that schools don't suit everyone. I had a somewhat unhappy time myself in early secondary school. However, I think schools have changed and some of the assumptions that are made don't reflect the reality of our recent experience.

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SheGotAllDaMoves · 25/09/2015 07:38

ice I'm sure you can draw any conclusions about the impact of HE of university students from a total of one Grin.

I had a student last year who has been (largely) home educated and he has not settled well. He has found the communal aspect of things difficult (this is a strong feature of my university). He did not like the syllabus and found it tough to accept that there were certain aspects of the subject that have to be covered.

Also, his time keeping was shocking.

But all this may be just be part of his personality rather than caused by his educational history.

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SheGotAllDaMoves · 25/09/2015 07:40

not sure...

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Lurkedforever1 · 25/09/2015 07:56

I don't think you can attribute better social mixing across age groups purely to home ed. I'd say that comes down to personality and opportunities to mix. My dd had a broad mix outside of school. However if I'd done home ed, practically speaking it's unlikely she'd have had the opportunity to become close friends with a girl with sn that academically is at the other end of the scale. If she'd done the sports and exercise she likes out of school only, she wouldn't have socialised much with children who aren't into them, or ones who just aren't sporty. The social opportunity to mix at primary with a broad range of ability and background of her own age was the major selling point for me. And didn't mean she lost out on the social aspects of interacting with people outside her age group either.
That perhaps wouldn't suit every child, but again I think that's more down to different personalities prospering more in different systems, rather than a clear cut reason one is always better than the other.

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SheGotAllDaMoves · 25/09/2015 09:00

If schools have a strong house system, there will always be plenty of mixing with those out of year group.

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bruffin · 25/09/2015 09:13

SheGotAllDaMoves

Back in the 70s DH's school had the vertical form system (think it still does) where each form is made up from a few children from each year. The school in Educating Essex Passmores also has that system. From what I can gather it works very well.
I can think of numerous opportunities in both primary and secondary that my dc have got to mix with other years. In November dc school will be doing the Shakespeare for Schools festival again. Four schools from primary and secondary schools take part, it was amazing to see year 5 and 6s doing shortened versions of Mcbeth last year and Midsummer Nights Dream and the Secondaries doing The Tempest and Taming of the Shrew at the local theatre. DD was thrilled to performing on the big stage and it didnt cost me a penny in drama classes

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NewLife4Me · 25/09/2015 10:11

I can't talk about uni as my dd is only 11 but she has gone from H. ed to boarding with no problem at all.
She has settled well into the classroom and formal learning and the fact she had previously worked with, not just muttered hello to older children meant that she was able to work with different age groups again as her school works like this.
However, there are huge similarities to H.ed I'm not sure how she would cope in a state secondary school, but it's not happening anyway.
As for fitting in with others in a place of work, I think people are looking at a very narrow field of work, maybe corporate?
There are so many types of job and work and for some H.ed will have been the best education to prepare them for that work. I would imagine it would be a huge benefit for the self employed, who have virtually nobody to answer to.

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NewLife4Me · 25/09/2015 10:19

Oh, meant to say.
As H.ed are not restricted in the amount or subject choice of GCSE's and A levels they take, they have far more choice to take the subjects in the area they want to work. I think it's more than half the battle won if you are doing something you enjoy, rather than choosing a job from the narrow choice of subjects you were given.
I think you are far better prepared in life and likely to fit into the workplace if you are familiar with what the job entails whether schooled or H.ed.

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bruffin · 25/09/2015 10:38

How do you know they are any better prepared for life? OP thinks her ds can get away with just studying IT subjects, I think she is in for a shock when he wants to go to uni, does she think he should have special treatment because he is HE'd and he is competing with others who have a full compliment of GCSES to show their work ethic.
My dc have chosen their subjects to reflect the career path they want to take. My ds chose physic and maths because he wants to be an engineer (off to Surrey tomorrow to take Mechanical Engineering) My DD has chosen biology because she wants to be an occupational therapist. She could do that route through taking A levels or going to a College and taking the Diploma in health and social care route Its the same for all their friends

Neither career are corporate (whatever that maybe) but still require them to be able to work with other and fit into the situation they have been put into. They will both more than likely wear a uniform and/or safety clothes.

Being self employed very rarely means you have no one to answer to, you have to be able to work to deadlines, otherwise your customers will not be happy etc.

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SheGotAllDaMoves · 25/09/2015 11:43

With all due respect new I think your comments about the workplace reflect the fact that you have not worked for 20+ years Smile.

There are extraordinarily few industries where you can work now without standard qualifications.

And being self employed doesn't mean you answer to no one and work without constraints. Far, far from it. Those who run their own successful businesses tend to be very collegiate and have honed the exemplary skill of getting what you want within constraints.

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SirChenjin · 25/09/2015 11:50

New - you do come across as having a very limited understanding of modern day qualifications, the workplace and of state schools. It's not a good advert for H.E.

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LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 25/09/2015 11:54

My form of SE means I have to slot into established teams, with no induction, training or support - I'm just there to be another asset in times of need. While I set my own hours, say yes or no to the jobs I want to do and yes, am responsible for managing my own time (hence MNing now, oops Blush) I would say my work is the exact opposite of having no-one to answer to.

Again though, I've nothing against HE. It's just this 'my HE is better than your sausage factory' argument which irks.

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SoupDragon · 25/09/2015 12:23

I always wonder why people think they need to be so insulting about choices that are different to their own. "Sausage factory" FFS.

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Jeeves93 · 25/09/2015 12:24

Intradental - I think you need to find out what Army Cadets actually do.

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IceBeing · 25/09/2015 12:30

shegot Oh I was not drawing anything from the single home ed kid..I was only trying to draw something about the average response of the schooled kids - though I totally get how it looked that way.

The point is more that schooled kids are under-prepared for setting their own goals at university in general.

sirchen not sure that New is actually in the advertising business....

People who home ed will likely be under knowledgeable about how school operates (well actually a lot of them have had to pull kids out of school - so they may know more than New and I who are starting from the scratch). People who school are under knowledgeable about Home Ed. So what? We are all here putting our persepctives and slowly converging on the idea that was obvious from the start that there are advantages to both that vary wildly on the basis of the child and parents concerned.

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SheGotAllDaMoves · 25/09/2015 12:46

Do you find them under prepared ice?

I must say, I don't. But then I work with students who have been through a rigorous selection process, so you'd expect them to be focussed/determined/self directed types.

No one ends up on my course by chance Grin.

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SheGotAllDaMoves · 25/09/2015 12:49

I'm not saying you're wrong by the way.

I don't send my DC to state schools, not because I have no faith in 'school' the concept (indeed I think learning a broad range of subjects from experts in a collegiate environment is possibly one of the most pleasurable and enriching ways to gain knowledge/skills) but because I have misgivings about how many state schools provide an education, especially to the most able.

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