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Guest post: "We must ask our doctors: 'is this treatment necessary?'"

92 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 15/05/2015 16:48

The other day, a colleague told me the following all too common story. A few weeks ago a 90 year-old woman was admitted to a local hospital with multiple problems. Not surprising perhaps for someone who has lived so long. One of these problems (though not the reason she was admitted) was having high levels of cholesterol, which as most people know, can lead to heart disease.

The guidelines, which we doctors are supposed to take into account at all times, say that one way to alleviate this problem is to prescribe statins. We know too that many people who are prescribed statins can experience an upset stomach or headache or feel sick for the first few weeks. That elderly lady died two weeks after the prescription from an unrelated disease, which was almost certainly going to kill her anyway. What really upset my colleague was that the last two weeks of her life were spent suffering from the side-effects of the statins, which the doctor had prescribed in absolute good faith and in absolute accordance with the training and the guidelines set out by the body that advises doctors on which intervention to make.

This story neatly illustrates the challenge we face in medicine every day: medicine, for all its high-tech advances in the last few decades, is not and will never be an exact science. No patient is ever the same, no symptom is ever identical and few treatments can ever be called perfect or entirely without risk. Most of all, medicine should be about people, and making decisions with them that are best for them. This is why my organisation, The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges, has launched an initiative called 'Choosing Wisely', which is about three things.

Firstly, we want doctors to understand that a pill, a test, or surgery – which by definition can be risky – may not always be the best solution for the patient. In my own field of psychiatry, we've long known that an episode of mild depression should be treated, in the first instance at least, with a prescription of some form of exercise the patient can do, often in conjunction with talking therapies. The problem is, most GPs aren't trained in psychiatry. How are they to define 'mild'? We know that anti-depressants aren't without risk, yet they continue to be doled out fairly easily, sometimes long after the episode of depression has passed, and studies reveal huge regional variations in the amounts of anti-depressants that are prescribed.

The second point is about patient expectation. Those people who are in and out of a doctor's surgery or their local A&E, convinced they have this or that illness and demanding a whole series of tests for them or their children, are not a myth. Our job is to manage their expectations or those of their parents. Of course we should commission the tests if in the clinician's view they are appropriate, but what we shouldn't be doing is ordering them just to put the patient's or parents' mind at rest. No healthcare system in the world has unlimited resources; our job is to be good stewards of the resources we have. Patients need to be more aware of the fact that one person having a test or treatment may remove the opportunity for other more pressing cases where the need may be greater or more genuine.

Finally, Choosing Wisely is about the doctor and patient having an open conversation together about what the risks and benefits are. It's about enfranchising patients and encouraging them to ask their doctor if this treatment or test really is necessary for them or their children. It may be that when they are fully informed they still want to go ahead. That's fine - we certainly don't want to ration treatments. But it may be that once they have all the information, they want a different option.

On this point there is some remarkable evidence: a recent study conducted into the use of stents, a common procedure used to widen narrowed or blocked arteries in the heart, showed that when patients were given basic information about the procedure, 69% were happy to have it carried out. But when patients were given full information about the likely impact and the extent to which a stent can remedy ongoing problems and extend life, just 46% of patients opted to go for the treatment.

Choosing Wisely will, I hope, help us to reach decisions together. Rational decisions based not on what we can do for the patient, but instead on what's best for the patient. And that's a decision we need to start taking together.

OP posts:
BlessedAndGr8fulNoInLaws4Xmas · 17/05/2015 00:50

Your post really lacks evidence base.

You ask how GPs define mild depression? Surely you would know that ?!
Do I really need to spell out rating scales ? A GP does not need to be trained in psychiatry ( and yes they do go on psych rotation so you are wrong on that point , and no I am not a GP but a senior mental health clinician) to diagnose mild, moderate, or severe depression.

"Doling" out antidepressants - not a particularly professional term either.

Your post is not credible and is based largely on assumptions.

FireCanal · 17/05/2015 01:08

OP what is your registered profession please?

See top right of screen.

PomBearWithAnOFRS · 17/05/2015 02:37

I was recently revived from the dead when they put my stents in, and in no condition to give informed consent, or take in information, or consider anything.
I just wanted to live.
I am thankful the doctors just put them in and didn't wait until I was in a fit state to have lectures and read leaflets and suchlike or dead again
That said, I have always found that it is much harder to a) get in to see a GP and b) get them to do anything at all than it would be to be overtreated for anything.
I may of course be biased, given that it was my GP who said (and I quote) "the only thing wrong with you woman is that you are fat. Go away and don't come back until you have lost four stone" a fortnight before I had a heart attack and cardiac arrest and actually died. My being here at all is thanks to the paramedics and the surgical team who put the aforementioned stents in and brought me back to life and saved me...

Itscurtainsforyou · 17/05/2015 08:31

PomBear what your GP said is awful. Please make a complaint.

ISeeDadPeople · 17/05/2015 08:45

I have to agree with the majority of posts here - in my opinion the bigger problem is getting GPs to actually intervene rather than 'come back in a couple of weeks'. I'm a health professional myself, I understand the value of watchful waiting, but I have often felt I've had to push for support and treatment (always been needed btw)

I don't blame GPs though, they are understaffed and constantly placed as the centre of all care which gives too much additional workload - that's without focussing on commissioning too!

I fear that this campaign will make the experience of patients worse and I don't support it.

Springtimemama · 17/05/2015 10:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlessedAndGr8fulNoInLaws4Xmas · 17/05/2015 11:04

Firecanal - I cannot see anywhere in the OP the stated profession of the OP.

Springtimemama · 17/05/2015 11:29

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Springtimemama · 17/05/2015 11:32

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AyMamita · 17/05/2015 17:41

Mollyair perhaps you should consider going private? It's entirely your choice...

HelenaDove · 17/05/2015 17:52

PomBear Im sorry to hear about that Thats awful. Thanks

In my case i have lost ten stone and have been left with some loose skin.

Now im not expecting a tummy tuck on the NHS Its not life or death. But what i DO expect when being weighed is for the doctor to knock the weight of my loose skin off the total. Its not fair to class loose skin as excess weight.

mineofuselessinformation · 17/05/2015 19:04

I see your point of view about elderly patients receiving treatment that will not extend their life, bit will refuse the quality of what they have left....
But I'm with the any posters who are also concerned about lack of treatment - two cases in point being my arthritis (I have been asking for close to twenty years about joint problems and was only diagnosed just under two years ago), I have no on-going treatment plan so have just shut up about it and am trying to manage, then there's the neurologist who was totally dismissive of my dc's tremor (they stated dc had always had it, we just hadn't noticed Shock). I could go on, and on....

mineofuselessinformation · 17/05/2015 19:05

but will reduce.... Sorry, arthritic thumbs make for poor typing on a phone...

piggychops · 17/05/2015 22:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

juwukk · 18/05/2015 11:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

edmontonkitty · 18/05/2015 16:55

I don't expect to have to ask my doctor if treatment is necessary. I think it is down to doctors to be more professional and not cave in to patient pressure to write a prescription or carry out tests. They are the professionals - it is their job to do the right thing not the easy thing. It is the doctors' fault that we have anti-biotic resistant bugs - just stop prescribing them.

edmontonkitty · 18/05/2015 16:55

I don't expect to have to ask my doctor if treatment is necessary. I think it is down to doctors to be more professional and not cave in to patient pressure to write a prescription or carry out tests. They are the professionals - it is their job to do the right thing not the easy thing. It is the doctors' fault that we have anti-biotic resistant bugs - just stop prescribing them.

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