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Justine Roberts: When did mum become a dirty word?

276 replies

KateMumsnet · 29/05/2014 12:08

In 2009, I was asked to send a Mumsnet blogger to join the media corps at the G20 summit. I immediately put the nomination to our online audience, who collectively chose one of Mumsnet's finest minds to represent us – a prolific poster who went by the name of Policywonk.

She was a smart cookie – highly educated with a particular interest in climate change. And, by all accounts, she had a high old time at the summit, rushing from one interview with a world leader to the next.

Afterwards, I quizzed her on what it was like. ‘Amazing,’ she confirmed. But there was something a little odd, she noticed. Whenever she introduced herself as a Mumsnet representative to a fellow member of the media corps, they would start speaking very slowly and deliberately. As if she were a child. But she wasn't a child, she was a mum – and that was the problem.

Over the past half-century in this country, women have made astonishing strides along the road to equality. Schoolgirls are more likely than their male contemporaries to apply to university – and to graduate with a first or upper-second-class degree. The gender pay gap has dropped from 45% in 1970, when the Equal Pay Act was introduced, to around 15% today. And feminism, which seemed to lie more or less dormant through the 1990s and 2000s, has reinvented itself for the digital generation via grass-roots projects such as Everyday Sexism and No More Page Three.

It is, in short, pretty much the best time in history to be a woman – until the moment you get pregnant, at which point all bets are off.

Leaving aside for a moment all the examples of real-world discrimination – and there are plenty of them – that women face when they have children, let's just consider what we've done with the word ‘mum’ itself. ‘Mummy’ is the first word in most children's vocabulary and, during their early years, arguably the most important one: its connotations, from our offspring’s point of view, are overwhelmingly positive. What happens, then, when we become mothers ourselves, and look at the word from the other end of the telescope? Why is it, when adults talk to adults, that we use it so negatively?

Read more of Justine's piece for the July issue of Red magazine here.

OP posts:
bbcessex · 01/06/2014 15:05

I agree with you SillyLass. There is value and respect to be had for all aspects of life; paid or not. For example - I respect and admire mums who have amazing running times at marathons and 10ks etc.. (because I don't!!!), but that's not a paid job and requires huge dedication in addition to the usual responsibilities.

As this topic has moved on to the SAHM... I do really think that the key to the SAHM / SAHD 'issue' / working environment lies with maternity leave . The two week 'paternity pay' for dads at the moment is ridiculous - on the whole, there is no choice about who stays at home; the default setting is the mum, which (generalising) makes her less attractive to an employer and (generalising) less respected by society. There is absolutely no reason why legislation can't be put in place so the mum or dad should have the choice of taking their company's/statutory (current) maternity leave package, or splitting it, whatever.

This - I think - is the crux of equality. I think implementing this policy would become the catalyst that would eventually turn the whole male/female divide issue on its head.

Bonsoir · 01/06/2014 16:27

Being a SAHP is quite different to running a marathon or taking time out to paint: raising children is a job for someone, be it a parent or someone you pay.

The fact that it is a job with no external spec (if you are a parent) doesn't any make it less of a job - unless you are totally irresponsible about it!

bbcessex · 01/06/2014 16:46

Bonsoir.. at what point does being SAHP stop being a job? When the children are 5? 10? 15? 20?

Bonsoir · 01/06/2014 17:00

When you don't have to do anything for them anymore (except make bank transfers to pay for their student accommodation etc). Which is not necessarily the point at which they start university!

scottishmummy · 01/06/2014 17:06

*Mumsnet,great site,shite name^.new strap line winder if it'll catch on

morethanpotatoprints · 01/06/2014 17:23

I think the term sahp or housewife doesn't tell us anything really anyway.
I don't woh for payment from an employer, but wouldn't say I was married to my house, nor have I ever stayed at home.
I parent and educate amongst other things and have always done this, housework is something everybody does to a certain degree whether they work or not, unless of course they live in squalor.
I am an individual and don't define myself with a label, nor should anybody else unless they want to.

Mignonette · 01/06/2014 17:35

You don't have to let people define you as 'Mother' If you ensure that it isn't the first word out of your mouth or topic of conversation that'll mitigate it.

People who spend the whole time talking about their kids cannot expect a whole lot else. Even the busiest parent has time to watch the news, glance at a paper, listen to the radio and form an opinion on something a lot more interesting.

Mignonette · 01/06/2014 17:36

Shit, bad grammar alert. Should be ' If you ensure that it isn't the first word out of your mouth or sole topic of conversation, that'll mitigate it.'

pilotbecky · 01/06/2014 17:52

What an interesting discussion. I went back to work six years ago after having children - I'm still on roughly half of what I was on when I left on maternity leave. I believe that, because I'm now a mother, I am underrated at work - but I don't really know why; is it because they think that, if my kids are sick, I will leave at the drop of a hat? They are right. Is it because I will book holiday to watch my childrens' plays? Yes. Is it because, really, work comes a poor second to my children? Of course it is. I don't want to work all hours and hand my kids to an army of nannies. I want to be there for them. So I am (sort of) content to sit on my hands and not complain too much for the time being.

Retropear · 01/06/2014 18:13

Interesting.I think a lot of this is down to a lack of self confidence in mums and the Internet explosion.

I judge myself too much and ironically this comes from reading too much Mumsnet.I never used to ever think being a Sahm was freeloading and not having a job is something I need to justify to my daughter or that apparently wearing mummy jeans and tunics(which I have to as I have a twin belly to clothe) is an issue.That is down to me though somewhat.

Funnily enough my dp feels judged for being a dad.He has a photo of our 3 on his desk at work and I know when he switched to his current job he debated re putting it on his desk again as he feels in his line of work the ideal is free young things without children to rush home to.Maybe that is a reflection of today's job market.

nooka · 01/06/2014 18:20

I've been lucky enough to work in parent friendly environments - note parent, not mum. I've worked with plenty of men who've flexed their hours to pick up their children from nursery or taken compressed weeks so that they can have a day with their children as well as some pretty powerful women who also happened to have children.

For me it's the shite adverts that hit my consciousness, with their assumptions that women morph into some sort of different state of being once they procreate, and the almost complete invisibility of fathers except for occasional comic relief. But then advertising is incredibly sexist anyway.

Also political and news reporting, as referenced earlier, there is no doubt that women are judged differently than men.

scottishmummy · 01/06/2014 19:30

I enjoy mn,participating and reading but hell im impervious to some of the stuff i read
The joy of mn is the range and depth of opinion,experience,and frisson amongst topics
Id never known pre-dc that ft nursery for babies is considered akin to abandonment by some.i wont change my behaviours or pov based on mn opinion

ssd · 01/06/2014 19:47

I think Justines article is a load of nonsense, mum isn't a dirty word anywhere, does she really believe that or is this a way to get publicity for the site?

JaneParker · 01/06/2014 19:57

That's because most of those present, male or female, are parents. Being a parent is not a job. I speak most weeks at public events and I am there as a leading XYZ at the peak of my career. Yes I am a mother of a large family too and always worked full time - leaning in is the way to go . It Rules.

Viviennemary · 01/06/2014 20:02

I don't think the word 'Mum' is offensive. But what about Mumsy to describe a dowdy looking outfit. No equivalent of that for Dads as far as I know. And even worse that newish term Yummy Mummy. That's even worse.

Retropear · 01/06/2014 20:20

For you Jane,not everybody.

bbcessex · 01/06/2014 21:27

Jane.. I think that's great.. I'm also pretty happy with my career, and I agree with leaning in.. I think Ms. Sandberg rocks too.

However.. we are in the position to have the skills / ability to do well, to love our jobs and to be successful at them.. not everyone is academic / creative / driven / fortunate / whatever.

I don't think being top of the career tree is for everyone, by any means, but I do think what matters is that you are 'your own person' and have something that is specifically related to your own hopes & ambitions - not DC or DH centric, but something 'just for yourself', whatever that may be...

I do also think it's HUGELY important to be independent and maintain some ability to support yourself (even if you don't do it..).. but I guess that's a different subject!

scottishmummy · 01/06/2014 21:32

Might be called leaning in now,its simply what most women have always done - worked

bbcessex · 01/06/2014 21:38

scottishmummy.. it's not just 'worked', though, is it - it's 'leaning in - continuing forward - not allowing yourself to be pushed back'..

I think that's a reasonably new* phenomenon...

  • new as in decades, not weeks :-)!
Retropear · 01/06/2014 21:41

But doesn't leaning in mean something different to just working?Doesn't it mean push harder?Many people in my family want the opposite- to lean out ie a career to work for them instead of the other way round.

Many people don't want work or a career to be the focus of their life.

JaneParker · 01/06/2014 21:48

scottish, mym concern is not that they continue to lean in. It's that very long times off have become the thing to do, what your friends do and if you don't you are looked at badly, that there is pressure to lean out, play second fiddle, become the pin money earner. I hope one effect of the recession is that we can revert to the norm of mother as worker who works hard and like men is a good parent too.

bbcessex · 01/06/2014 21:48

Retropear.. I agree.. am quite liking your 'lean out'!.. That's very true - lots of people what a job or career to just work around them.. and quite right too, if that suits them - why not x

(Ps - I don't really like the phrase 'lean in' - I think it's a bit twee - but if I ever meet Sheryl Sandberg, I probably won't mention that!).

scottishmummy · 01/06/2014 21:48

No,i know what lean is.and the positive risk and participation strategy
Im just saying most women work.and mum isnt dirty word

bbcessex · 01/06/2014 21:50

JaneParker.. in an earlier post, I mentioned that I think spreading 'maternity' options between men and women will help to even the playing field.. What's your view on that?

Delphiniumsblue · 01/06/2014 21:54

I don't know why we get all these silly terms like 'leaning in'. What is wrong with plain English?
It most definitely is not the way I want to go!

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