Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Guest posts

Guest post: Why is society so ambivalent about stay-at-home mums?

607 replies

KateMumsnet · 26/02/2014 11:27

Historically women (and children) have always worked. The poor would either take their children to work with them, or leave them with extended families. At the other end of the scale, rich women would leave their children in the care of a nanny while they managed household staff and organised events - long before these activities became viable career choices.

What's changed is that there is now an expectation - or illusion - of choice in the matter. When I was growing up, we had a female prime minister, and Alexis Carrington was the most famous woman on TV. We were told that we could have it all – glittering career, thriving children and a happy marriage.

It was a lie. As adults, we discover that economic necessity, the needs of children and our own aspirations all pull us in different directions. Rather than 'having it all', we choose our path and passionately defend our decisions against the different choices, opinions and expectations of others. Someone, somewhere will always disagree.

Obviously, there's a tension for those who would love to make a different choice, but can't. For some, working just isn't worth it. Salaries can't compete with the crippling cost of formal childcare, and for many of us, family aren't on hand to help. For others, rocketing property prices and rents mean that often both parents must work to afford the roof over their heads and an acceptable standard of living. With the prospect of meagre pensions, tuition fees, care homes and future property prices, there's a strong chance my children might, at 25, wish I'd traded those extra games of Scrabble for a decent deposit on a flat.

Over the past eight years I've worked part-time, freelanced, stayed at home and run my own business. I gave up my “glittering” corporate TV career and moved out of London, back to the village I grew up in, after the birth of son number 2. Not one of those solutions has been perfect, none of them have been easy and I have beaten myself up over each and every decision.

But the decision to stay at home was the one that I struggled with most. Like squabbling siblings, what I wanted for my children, my own identity and my relationship constantly clashed. Enduring stereotypes are of either the dull but worthy women, who were relieved that finally nothing more was expected of them in terms of their career - or the wealthy, well-groomed types who rule the PTA with an iron fist. The woman who actively chooses to stay at home seems to stir a wealth of confused emotions in all of us.

And as a feminist, I couldn't help feeling that I was letting the side down. By the time I had children I was successful, financially independent and viewed my marriage as a partnership of equals. The notion that I could give it all up in favour of singing ‘the wheels on the bus’ and sorting the laundry seemed extraordinary. I was uncomfortable with being financially dependent on my husband and I didn't like what it did to our relationship (there was an argument about aubergines I shan't forget). I had grown up with my mother laying out my father's clothes in the morning, but had expected something different for myself: this was not what feminism had fought for; this was not my place. How could I bring my sons up to respect women and treat them as equals if I wasn't an equal partner in my own house?

And yet, I wanted to be at home with my children. I wanted to be the one that cuddled them, read them stories and watched them grow. I wanted to make them toast when they came home from school. I felt my children needed me - and for many women, no job is more important.

And what about the state's position on all this? It seems to be ambivalent at best; fundamentally, it views you in terms of economic worth. We have an ageing population and we need people of working age to pay for them. The fact that children need nurturing, educating, and caring for is overlooked. That future generation of voters is not important right now. Politicians might pay lip service to the value of carers, but the welfare system reveals the truth – they are a burden; they've made a ‘lifestyle choice’ and they aren't ‘pulling their weight’.

The government's answer is to institutionalise childcare; to lengthen school days and cut holidays. They seem to be arguing simultaneously that looking after children is worthless, and yet too important to be left to mere parents. This benefits no one, except employers who no longer have the hassle of negotiating flexibility. It certainly doesn't benefit children or families.

The result is that we all feel confused and a little resentful. Working women will label stay at home mothers as ‘lazy’ or ‘lucky’, and stay at home mothers will accuse working mothers of being ‘selfish’. Both sides feel guilt and resentment over the choices they feel they should have had but didn't - the nagging doubt that we should be providing more, either emotionally or financially. Round and round we go, constantly striving to do better and tying ourselves up in knots.

There are simple, albeit naive, solutions. Cheaper housing and childcare would make staying at home or working a genuine choice rather than a necessity, as would a working culture that is not defined by the hours you work but by the quality of the work that you do - enabling mothers and fathers to do their bit at home and away.

Maybe this is feminism's next task: to redefine how society views the role of caring, and to challenge the notion that ‘progress’ is always moving in the same direction. A stage on from 'women competing in a man's world' would be to elevate caring to a level at which it can also be seen as successful - equal to the providing bit. Then we could, perhaps, put down our defensiveness, and acknowledge that we're all just doing our best with the circumstances we have - and that, most of the time, that's good enough.

We may never see the day when all we're competing over is who raises the most emotionally stable and contented children - but it's a nice thought.

OP posts:
WidowWadman · 01/03/2014 13:32

"what would make a huge difference for me personally would be far more sustainable ways to work from home. i want rid of the public/private sphere chasm and to be able to generate my income from my home and with my child still in my care. i think that is where we should focus tbh if we want to make parents and women's lives better - getting rid of the whole either/or dichotomy. in this day and age there are so many jobs that just don't require you to go to the office. i'd happily do quite a menial job that i'm overqualified for and that pays virtually minimum wage if i could do it here in my home on the laptop and phone."

You can't work from home without having childcare in place in the long term - I occasionally do it when one of the kids is ill, but it really means that child is left in care of the electronic babysitter, whilst I get on - it's neither ideal for the child nor for my job, and nothing I could reasonably do with a child which is actually healthy and bouncy instead of zonked out on the sofa. Working from home really doesn't mean that you don't need to concentrate properly on the job but just can do it in the background whilst baking cupcakes with the children.

Offred · 01/03/2014 13:34

I agree re working from home. If I have reading for uni and assignments (which I have ability to control more than a job), my kids have to sit and watch tv or play outside. I can't actually provide childcare for them and do work.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 13:54

watching tv and playing outside, reading books and drawing and painting, playing minecraft, playing with cars, bouncing on the trampoline etc. perfectly fine in my opinion - what do you think they do at a childminders - sit in permanent active conversation with an adult? Confused

WidowWadman · 01/03/2014 14:04

Honeybadger - you seem to have no idea what "working from home on a laptop" entails, if you believe you can do that without having proper childcare arrangements in place. Actually it fucks me right off, as it supports the prejudice that people who work from home don't do proper work, and it's just skiving, when it's much the opposite.

LauraBridges · 01/03/2014 14:15

Depends on the age. We needed a full time nanny even when we were both working from him but children were small. When they are older it's very different.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 14:17

my son is 7 and i do do work at home sometimes and find it fine personally. not sure why that should 'fuck you off' so much widow.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 14:18

yes laura agreed older is much different. however even if you did need childcare you'd only need it for your working hours rather than adding on the travel times for one thing.

manaboutthehouse1967 · 01/03/2014 14:18

Bonsoir - really interesting response and given my experiences thus far exactly illustrates how SAHD are perceived . Im not retired, not unable to work, and certainly not a man of leisure without any retinue of staff to assist.
We have chosen for me to take on the full time parenting and housekeeping duties , it was a joint decision based upon a number of factors including the career aspirations/potential of my wife and the financial implications of the cost of childcare. It was always our plan for us to look after our child ourselves . My full time job is Daddy and Hubby, we get no benefits and even find that the state does not assist us to balance our books as it were as my wife is somehow deemed to successful in her career to get help and support like any child benefit or even salary sacrifice for childcare vouchers of a meaningful amount . The glass ceiling is well and truly there but now it is reinforced by punitive withdrawal of allowances regardless of total family income .Any suggestion of flexible working or job sharing is regarded with derision and career ending. As her role is too important it seams, which just indicates how lowly we count parenting in the grand scheme of things , this is being reinforced and implemented not as you might think by men who are saying "well you wanted equality" but by women who appear to want to reinforce the old ways and choices of a career or a family for modern women because "that's how it was for them!"
Until homemaking and parenting are truly valued by society nothing will change regardless of the sex of those doing the job.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 14:19

also not sure where that prejudice that people who work at home don't actually work comes from Confused never heard it or seen of it personally.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 14:27

DO people really think that? i've honestly never come across that attitude and more normal to me is to hear people being massively impressed by people working from home or running their own business' and assuming it must take such self discipline and they couldn't do it.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 01/03/2014 15:07

Depends on who and what the person is doing. There is a bias that women particularly run home businesses are doing hobbies while watching the kids & TV for a bit of pin money and are always available for other things because it isn't a 'real' business or as important as their partner/an employed person/other types of businesses. I've found it harder to get my own business taken seriously compared to the one I ran with DP, especially now that he's in full time work outside the home.

georgesdino · 01/03/2014 16:34

Its only because you have a lot of children offred. University paid all my childcare for my first degree, and they are soon paying for it all for my masters to.

blueshoes · 01/03/2014 17:04

I am less efficient when I work from home. I know many aspects of my job cannot be done as well when I work from home. I negotiated the ability to work from home one day a week because I wanted to do the school run and be able to facilitate playdates - that was a condition of my joining my current employer and they know the reason. On the days I work from home, I am in-and-out of the house, doing school runs and errands, and fitting my work in between, though often finishing later in the day to make up. It is a serious perk and one which I appreciate the flexibility of. I don't feel guilty because I put in many hours over my contracted ones on my other days. I am not paid by hour but for getting the job done.

However, that does not change the fact that working from home is a bit of jolly for me. I would not be surprised if others did the same when they WFH. The perception does exist in my company as working from home is not encouraged by HR (US firm) and I cannot say I blame them.

Offred · 01/03/2014 17:57

Usually only two who are there but when there are four they play together and the bigger ones can get the little ones things like fruit and drinks and can deal with them when they fuss.

In order to be efficient I have to largely ignore the children. I would not say I am providing childcare at these times so much as being available if there's an urgent need/problem. I don't think you can provide childcare whilst working. If a childminder ignored the children as much as I have to when I'm studying then they'd get the sack.

lainiekazan · 01/03/2014 18:39

Yahoo's boss (female) banned home working practically the minute she was hired, and not just because quite a few employees were skiving. It was considered not conducive to building a "company culture".

The ability to wfh is usually a perk earned after some service, and also only available to those higher up the tree. The receptionist can hardly work from home! As I said upthread, all discussions seem to focus on those people who work in an office.

That being said, when I was a school governor the Head put in a formal request (actually it was a demand) to work from home. This was an infant school, btw. I don't know what people think of that!

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 18:55

but given how many online business' there are of course their customer service staff could work from home. likewise call centre type staff - that can be done from home. whether you are answering the phone/email/live chat query in an office in london or your own home in milton keynes makes no difference.

clearly it doesn't fit to all roles but for many it really could. why for example do 5 4 hr shifts in a call centre a week (fairly common work pattern for that industry) requiring 6hrs childcare a day due to travel times rather than do it from home?

you can't skive in a computer monitored role where the phone rings and has to be answered or the live chat pops up and should be immediately responded to or the orders once received have to be processed.

i'm talking about that kind of work. does british gas 'really' need the person taking your call and entering into an online system your payment details to be in an office? does the citizens advice bureau really need their telephone advisors to be sat in one particular spot? etc.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 18:59

and that to me is where industry is missing on massive talent - they can get an 18yo, minimum wage, get what you pay for customer services employee in a call centre or someone mature, well qualified, articulate, used to dealing with all walks of life and willing to work for far less than they're worth in exchange for working from home person to be the person their customer talks to on the phone.

WidowWadman · 01/03/2014 19:09

I think there's nothing wrong with wfh as such - I just think that the assumption that "wfh = no need for child care" is inherently wrong. It's neither fair on the children nor on the employer, not to use childcare when wfh as a regular thing (not talking about emergency situations)

And yes, of course, not having to commute is great and a time save - although I must admit that I often actually instead of logging off at my normal "home time" I continue to work until the time I'd be home if I was commuting.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 19:12

but half the problem of women is the work/childrearing divide. we survived thousands and thousands of years having our children with us whilst we were 'economically' productive.

i personally feel perfectly capable of overseeing my child, keeping him safe and ensuring enough stimulation etc whilst also doing say 4hrs a day of work in the same building. i'm a home educator so maybe coming from a different space than those who only get to see their children outside school hours.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 19:16

children don't need 24hr a day stimulation and helicoptering. i can be looking after my child, doing work, planning how to deal with bills x, y and z and fielding emails all at the same time. we all do it. sahms are looking after their kids whilst cleaning the house, doing the laundry, phoning 02 to work out why the hell they've been charged double this week, researching best quotes for car insurance, mumsnetting and doing the online shop.

so why when the 'other stuff' we're simultaneously doing is paid stuff does it become 'not fair on the children' or needing professional childcare to accommodate it?

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 19:19

we're fucking good at juggling! the idea that work with a capital W has to be something other, done over there in a special outfit and as part of a particular culture and between the hours of x and y is just counter intuitive to the reality of female life throughout the ages. trying to make ourselves mould to that model instead of the model change to fit with us was a mistake imo.

Offred · 01/03/2014 19:19

I'm not capable of giving my child enough stimulation whilst I concentrate on work.

As for telephone advisers at CAB, which is something I do know about, they absolutely could not work at home whilst caring for their children - there would be security and confidentiality issues, they would havve no access to their supervisor (hevaily relied on as the only paid staff) no access to the computer system and quite frankly would not be able to properly focus on what is often very emotionally demanding work where people's livelihoods, safety and homes are often at stake. You have to concentrate much harder on a client over the phone than in person. I would not be able to do it and also be available for my children.

Childcare for me is not about just being in the house with the children but about the actual focus of your effort being on them. Yes you can do work from home and be with your children but I don't think it is possible to provide childcare and focus on work. Especially if the work is demanding.

Offred · 01/03/2014 19:21

I can do reading and assignments with the children around but I find it takes me longer to achieve the same amount of work, it is often of a lower standard and I have to sacrifice the level of care I think my children require.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 19:22

of course they could be given access to the computer system and of course they could have contact with their supervisor. we're in the 21st century.

no one can make children there no.1 absolute focus 24hrs a day be they paid for it or not. i don't think it's even healthy to aspire to for adults or children.

and fair play you feel you couldn't do it - that doesn't extrapolate out to 'no one could or should do it' though.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 19:27

i may be strange because i'm a secondary school teacher - once you can manage 30 teenagers at once whilst also executing a learning plan and operating technology and coping with facilitating the exceptionally bright at the same time as those who can't even speak english maybe the concept of minding a child and dealing with basic customer enquiries at the same time doesn't seem that mind boggling.

i'm guessing sahms who manage to run a house, deal with finances, cope with the laundry mountain, manage a budget and stimulate their kids would feel the same though. not sure why we'd want to downplay our multitasking abilities or claim childcare should demand our 100% undivided attention 24hrs a day. if so we'd all need cleaners and cooks and accountants to be able to raise our children.

Swipe left for the next trending thread