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Guest post: Why is society so ambivalent about stay-at-home mums?

607 replies

KateMumsnet · 26/02/2014 11:27

Historically women (and children) have always worked. The poor would either take their children to work with them, or leave them with extended families. At the other end of the scale, rich women would leave their children in the care of a nanny while they managed household staff and organised events - long before these activities became viable career choices.

What's changed is that there is now an expectation - or illusion - of choice in the matter. When I was growing up, we had a female prime minister, and Alexis Carrington was the most famous woman on TV. We were told that we could have it all – glittering career, thriving children and a happy marriage.

It was a lie. As adults, we discover that economic necessity, the needs of children and our own aspirations all pull us in different directions. Rather than 'having it all', we choose our path and passionately defend our decisions against the different choices, opinions and expectations of others. Someone, somewhere will always disagree.

Obviously, there's a tension for those who would love to make a different choice, but can't. For some, working just isn't worth it. Salaries can't compete with the crippling cost of formal childcare, and for many of us, family aren't on hand to help. For others, rocketing property prices and rents mean that often both parents must work to afford the roof over their heads and an acceptable standard of living. With the prospect of meagre pensions, tuition fees, care homes and future property prices, there's a strong chance my children might, at 25, wish I'd traded those extra games of Scrabble for a decent deposit on a flat.

Over the past eight years I've worked part-time, freelanced, stayed at home and run my own business. I gave up my “glittering” corporate TV career and moved out of London, back to the village I grew up in, after the birth of son number 2. Not one of those solutions has been perfect, none of them have been easy and I have beaten myself up over each and every decision.

But the decision to stay at home was the one that I struggled with most. Like squabbling siblings, what I wanted for my children, my own identity and my relationship constantly clashed. Enduring stereotypes are of either the dull but worthy women, who were relieved that finally nothing more was expected of them in terms of their career - or the wealthy, well-groomed types who rule the PTA with an iron fist. The woman who actively chooses to stay at home seems to stir a wealth of confused emotions in all of us.

And as a feminist, I couldn't help feeling that I was letting the side down. By the time I had children I was successful, financially independent and viewed my marriage as a partnership of equals. The notion that I could give it all up in favour of singing ‘the wheels on the bus’ and sorting the laundry seemed extraordinary. I was uncomfortable with being financially dependent on my husband and I didn't like what it did to our relationship (there was an argument about aubergines I shan't forget). I had grown up with my mother laying out my father's clothes in the morning, but had expected something different for myself: this was not what feminism had fought for; this was not my place. How could I bring my sons up to respect women and treat them as equals if I wasn't an equal partner in my own house?

And yet, I wanted to be at home with my children. I wanted to be the one that cuddled them, read them stories and watched them grow. I wanted to make them toast when they came home from school. I felt my children needed me - and for many women, no job is more important.

And what about the state's position on all this? It seems to be ambivalent at best; fundamentally, it views you in terms of economic worth. We have an ageing population and we need people of working age to pay for them. The fact that children need nurturing, educating, and caring for is overlooked. That future generation of voters is not important right now. Politicians might pay lip service to the value of carers, but the welfare system reveals the truth – they are a burden; they've made a ‘lifestyle choice’ and they aren't ‘pulling their weight’.

The government's answer is to institutionalise childcare; to lengthen school days and cut holidays. They seem to be arguing simultaneously that looking after children is worthless, and yet too important to be left to mere parents. This benefits no one, except employers who no longer have the hassle of negotiating flexibility. It certainly doesn't benefit children or families.

The result is that we all feel confused and a little resentful. Working women will label stay at home mothers as ‘lazy’ or ‘lucky’, and stay at home mothers will accuse working mothers of being ‘selfish’. Both sides feel guilt and resentment over the choices they feel they should have had but didn't - the nagging doubt that we should be providing more, either emotionally or financially. Round and round we go, constantly striving to do better and tying ourselves up in knots.

There are simple, albeit naive, solutions. Cheaper housing and childcare would make staying at home or working a genuine choice rather than a necessity, as would a working culture that is not defined by the hours you work but by the quality of the work that you do - enabling mothers and fathers to do their bit at home and away.

Maybe this is feminism's next task: to redefine how society views the role of caring, and to challenge the notion that ‘progress’ is always moving in the same direction. A stage on from 'women competing in a man's world' would be to elevate caring to a level at which it can also be seen as successful - equal to the providing bit. Then we could, perhaps, put down our defensiveness, and acknowledge that we're all just doing our best with the circumstances we have - and that, most of the time, that's good enough.

We may never see the day when all we're competing over is who raises the most emotionally stable and contented children - but it's a nice thought.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 10:12

that's being a student.

the state doesn't step in with me anymore than it would a woman with a partner who was earning the same as me - re: their household will have the exact same entitlement to me for tax credits and CB as me despite the fact there are two potential earners in there.

the state actually does support sahms in that sense who are married because it doesn't say no you can't have tax credits, tell your wife to get a job.

if i become unemployed and her husband becomes unemployed we will again have the same access to benefits. however if i don't find a job in a year the condems want to have my entitlement to housing benefit cut by 10% as a single parent but won't cut the married couples even though there are two of them who could find a job and two of them to manage childcare.

if i choose to go to college instead of working then clearly no, the state won't be liable to help me in anyway. the conclusion being i couldn't afford to go to college unless i saved up all the funds for it in advance.

Offred · 01/03/2014 10:17

Yes, I get it but you're wrong that the state doesn't say you can't have tax credits, the thresholds have been drastically reduced and no tax credits mean no help with childcare costs. If it is the man, and it usually is, who has gone out to work and left you at home you have to negotiate with him over your return.

I know they are particularly and harshly targeting single parents (usually mothers). The ones who are worst off are always the ones where the father has fucked completely off but can you see why I'm saying that makes them the gatekeepers in a way. If your x had not fucked off and was around making concessions to share the childcare burden you'd be in a better position.

Offred · 01/03/2014 10:18

Makes men the gatekeepers I mean.

LauraBridges · 01/03/2014 10:19

There are a lot of very happy full time working mothers and fathers out there including me who feel no guilt, no angst and have lovely happy lives and their children are happy. I am sure plenty of stay at home mothers and father whether they have servants to help with domestic chores or not are happy too so there is no need for anyone to get annoyed that others take different choices. However we are all free to talk about the implications of particular choices.

As for plans some of us are planners and some not. I was on Radio 4 this week talking about some of these issues. I mentioned when I was a teenager I planned a very large family and very lucrative career and by 14 or 15 I was certainly a feminist. Those plans, those goals and feminism and the important feminist works I read when I was in my mid teams have in large part made my life such a lovely and happy one, balanced as I have work, children and hobbies. Given how well having such plans worked for me it would be very strange if i were not to suggest others make similar plans. There is a pattern you can follow to make life easier (that does not just include the stuff I did like getting the best A levels in the school, university prizes, picking a good career, having babies in your 20s (as if you want a lot of them it's best to get on with it) bu it also includes the other planned things I do to ensure I am healthy and happy like lots of sleep, eating good foods, no alcohol, not getting fat etc. They are plans and they often lead to good results.

Offred · 01/03/2014 10:32

I broadly agree about the planning but for me, a product of an abusive home who had unstable housing in my teens and ended up in a relationship with an abuser who has now been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, who sexually abused and raped me and then fucked off leaving me with his debts and two children, who brought an expensive and (magistrate said) unfounded court case against me which lasted 3 years, that kind of planning would always have been irrelevant to my life.

I then married my husband thinking because he was a good man and supportive that he believed in equality, only to find out that he didn't and that he ran away to work after our twins were born leaving me too bamboozled to do pretty much anything. I fought to start studying as a way out but had to manage that around the children (4 under 5) and house.

When I was ready to start working he insisted he could not make concessions to allow it and I believed him. I began suspecting this was not true, eventually left and lo and behold his work promotes flexible working and working around the voluntary work (career relevant) I now do is apparently easy as pie for him.

My choices have been irrelevant most of my life for one reason or another. It is only just now I'm able to get some control and independence.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 10:46

i'm sorry you've been through all that.

it seems obvious to me that there is no childcare support if you don't receive wtc because you're not working. i don't see how the state could pay for childcare of a non working parent. going to uni realistically is a luxury that very few people can afford these days even if they don't have children to support.

my son's father has not been the gateway to anything in my case. i chose to go ahead and have my son knowing that i would be single as i didn't want to be with the father and he then chose that if he couldnt' have me he wasn't having anything to do with the future child. the gateway was the usual one i guess - male expects to be fucked and have his socks washed in order to owe a contribution to family life and responsibilities. where the state should step in is to make sure that that male is by law enforced to financially provide for his children. you can't cut benefits and support to single parents from the state AND make it more difficult for them to get child maintenance from father's at the same time. well obviously you can and that's exactly what the state is doing currently Grin

if there are two people they have choices of who works, if one works or both, if they outsource childcare or share it between them etc. the govt doesn't care which they do imo as i've said. the changes and target of attack is those women who live without a male in the household. they.must.work and their lives must.be.hard otherwise chaos will ensue and who will fuck us and wash our socks????

Offred · 01/03/2014 10:58

With respect I think I have a broader perspective on it because I've moved in and out different family types while I've had children. Equal discussions, no matter how much the mother wants them, are only able to happen if the father is minded to allow them I think. If the father chooses to fuck off or not what the father feels about equality and fatherhood unfortunately is the single biggest determining factor in women's choice. Even if you do get wtc and childcare help - someone still has to top it up. If the mother wants to go back to work at any point either 3 days or 13 years after the birth and the father won't contribute resources (emotional or financial) to that unless the woman has independent resources to draw on that limits her choices in a way that men's are not.

There are always two parents. If your ex had not fucked off and refused to be involved completely then it would have given you choices. Being vulnerable to abuse by the state, not being able to study, finding it hard to work are therefore ways him fucking off has limited choices available to you. His choices aren't limited because he's fucked off. He chose to prioritise himself over you and the dc. There are different levels of selfish choices though whether it is something small like not taking paternity leave or something big like fucking off completely. Men's choices are still, unacceptably, limiting of women's when there are children born.

Offred · 01/03/2014 11:30

The government are trying to fuck over women which is why they are harshly targeting single parents I think. I agree that they are but they're also targeting women with partners too.

I don't think it is about single parents as much as it is about women. They are Tories after all. They don't want women to be independent or equal. Leaving a partner is often a way to try and achieve that. They don't want to allow women equality which is why they crack down on single parents and on tax credits and child benefit.

Bonsoir · 01/03/2014 11:38

Offred - I don't think the government are setting out to fuck women over (even if I agree that the outcome of their policies will achieve that). The government advised by consultancies is looking for any sort of revenue it can. Consultancies It has identified qualified women not currently employed or not currently employed to their full potential as a massive source of income-generation. This is not an unreasonable point of view. What is unreasonable is that the onus of the reorganisation of domestic lives, childcare support and costs that returning to the workplace entails for women also lies with women.

Offred · 01/03/2014 11:45

If that were true then their policies would have financial benefits to the state, which they don't. Many of them are costly. There are not enough jobs and many of their policies involve forcing certain groups of women out of the workplace.

Offred · 01/03/2014 11:49

And working for a multi-national tax avoider in a job that itself contributes little income tax is hardly a benefit to a state which has to often fund the cost of the childcare. My childcare for example would be £400 per day in the school holidays. The govt would need to contribute 70% of that if I were to work. I would not pay enough tax to cover that cost. It is ideological rather than economic like bailing out the banks and cutting welfare based on 'worklessness' despite there being no jobs and 54% of welfare being spent on pensioners.

Offred · 01/03/2014 11:51

My ex husband, my ex p and I combined would not even cover that cost and they currently get the tax from my exes whether or not I work. Makes no economic sense for a state who doesn't see the profits. Makes sense for profit makers who benefit from low wages and high unemployment and who have a relatively small tax burden (yes I know the amounts contributed can be large but relative to the tax burden of PAYE employees).

Bonsoir · 01/03/2014 11:53

In the short-term and at the individual level there are always anecdotes to illustrate that policies are doing the opposite of their intended consequences.

But in the long-term and at the macro level it is not nonsensical for governments, in the current world, to want all qualified able bodied adults to work and pay tax to the best of their ability.

Families might not want to do this, however.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 12:02

no, i'm afraid i stand by being the expert on my own life. i would have less choices if my child's father was around, less freedom, more interference etc. i don't see myself as a victim of his not being around. it's sad for ds that he hasn't got a decent and involved father but for me it has been extremely liberating in many ways especially when i compare my lot (and our wellbeing and homelife) with that of women with shitty ex's who use being a father to harass and create problems for them.

i chose to have my son, i wanted him. i chose not to have any more children and i've chosen to stay single for the most part. for me it just is not the case that a man is the gateway to anything and no that doesn't mean the state has stepped in because i take no more from the state than a married couple with one sahp does.

what would make a huge difference for me personally would be far more sustainable ways to work from home. i want rid of the public/private sphere chasm and to be able to generate my income from my home and with my child still in my care. i think that is where we should focus tbh if we want to make parents and women's lives better - getting rid of the whole either/or dichotomy. in this day and age there are so many jobs that just don't require you to go to the office. i'd happily do quite a menial job that i'm overqualified for and that pays virtually minimum wage if i could do it here in my home on the laptop and phone.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 12:03

and please stop calling him my ex - it attributes some status in my life to him that he doesn't merit. he's ds' bio father. he's nothing to me other than that.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/03/2014 12:13

to come back to point a bit what i'm saying is that the question, 'why is society so ambivalent about sahms?' is answered by the existence of single mothers. if society says sahms are really, really important and wonderful and society should support and praise them then it will have to say hang on a minute, we've just said that single mothers must be in work by the time their child is five or we will sanction them and send them on workfare AND we're saying that men don't really owe financial support to their children and the state will no longer support women in trying to secure financial support but will charge them for doing so.

THAT to me is the simple crux of the ambivalence.

if all women were wives they'd be singing sahms praises from the rooftops as they used to. given they're not they're having to muddy the waters and change their tune.

manaboutthehouse1967 · 01/03/2014 12:23

If you think society is confused about Mums who stay at home spare a thought for the Dads who do the same. I have done this for the last 16 months and nobody seams to know how to deal with it.

Ive been asked why I retired so young? (46) Treated as a sideshow at the baby clinic. Asked if Im unemployed and why couldnt I get a job? Funnily enough the most aggressive people are some of the women, who seam to feel threatened or that I am depriving my wife of the experience. Colleagues at work ( Im lucky to work part time (some evenings weekends and holidays) at a racing circuit ) just can`t see why I would want to do it especially having recently seen what a version of our routine is like when I had to take our lad into work for a day how busy and demanding an inquisitive toddler can be .
Former colleagues from my FT career shun me and assume I had some form of breakdown but cover it by staying at home . It will be interesting to see how my time at home will effect my future employment in years to come.
I see (and have always seen ) real value in parents being at home but feel that society as a whole needs to rethink its approach to parenting and how it is valued. Every time there is a report on child crime or behaviour in schools there is a blame the parents response , perhaps its bigger than that perhaps it is necessary for the whole of society to play a part in supporting stay at home parents of either sex.

Bonsoir · 01/03/2014 13:00

There are some SAHDs at DD's school. Some are trailing spouses who have followed their DWs' careers to Paris and cannot themselves get jobs here because of visa and language issues. Some are retired. And some are... men of leisure. Those ones often have homes full of staff and little responsibility.

Offred · 01/03/2014 13:03

I'm not saying you don't know about your life. I'm saying you can't extrapolate your life to everyone else's. Yes, things are really tough for single parents, yes they are being deliberately targeted but that doesn't mean things are not tough for women in other family set ups.

Bonsoir · 01/03/2014 13:04

"that doesn't mean things are not tough for women in other family set ups"

Yes, I agree very much with this.

Offred · 01/03/2014 13:04

Bonsoir - that assumes that the tax they pay outweighs the cost of the childcare. It doesn't.

Bonsoir · 01/03/2014 13:05

Offred - over a lifetime it might. All adults contribute/take from the tax pool differently over a life time.

Offred · 01/03/2014 13:12

Parents can return to the workplace when they don't need childcare though so you can't count that tax only the increase in tax from career progression and even that is not likely to even be cost neutral since you need to average above the 6th decile in order to pay in more than you pay out (wages are very low).

Bonsoir · 01/03/2014 13:19

It's not that simple, Offred.

Is it better to have a low wage earner being a net beneficiary of taxpayer income to the tune of 10% of their income over a lifetime or to have someone on benefits for a lifetime?

Offred · 01/03/2014 13:29

But lots of these women can't claim benefits, which is the point, whether they are married, living with a partner or single parents and they haven't been for years and there is no reason why when they didn't need childcare and if there were jobs these women would be 'on benefits for a lifetime'. There's also the fact that in work or not, many families will need top up benefits for the period of child rearing and old age.