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Guest post: Why is society so ambivalent about stay-at-home mums?

607 replies

KateMumsnet · 26/02/2014 11:27

Historically women (and children) have always worked. The poor would either take their children to work with them, or leave them with extended families. At the other end of the scale, rich women would leave their children in the care of a nanny while they managed household staff and organised events - long before these activities became viable career choices.

What's changed is that there is now an expectation - or illusion - of choice in the matter. When I was growing up, we had a female prime minister, and Alexis Carrington was the most famous woman on TV. We were told that we could have it all – glittering career, thriving children and a happy marriage.

It was a lie. As adults, we discover that economic necessity, the needs of children and our own aspirations all pull us in different directions. Rather than 'having it all', we choose our path and passionately defend our decisions against the different choices, opinions and expectations of others. Someone, somewhere will always disagree.

Obviously, there's a tension for those who would love to make a different choice, but can't. For some, working just isn't worth it. Salaries can't compete with the crippling cost of formal childcare, and for many of us, family aren't on hand to help. For others, rocketing property prices and rents mean that often both parents must work to afford the roof over their heads and an acceptable standard of living. With the prospect of meagre pensions, tuition fees, care homes and future property prices, there's a strong chance my children might, at 25, wish I'd traded those extra games of Scrabble for a decent deposit on a flat.

Over the past eight years I've worked part-time, freelanced, stayed at home and run my own business. I gave up my “glittering” corporate TV career and moved out of London, back to the village I grew up in, after the birth of son number 2. Not one of those solutions has been perfect, none of them have been easy and I have beaten myself up over each and every decision.

But the decision to stay at home was the one that I struggled with most. Like squabbling siblings, what I wanted for my children, my own identity and my relationship constantly clashed. Enduring stereotypes are of either the dull but worthy women, who were relieved that finally nothing more was expected of them in terms of their career - or the wealthy, well-groomed types who rule the PTA with an iron fist. The woman who actively chooses to stay at home seems to stir a wealth of confused emotions in all of us.

And as a feminist, I couldn't help feeling that I was letting the side down. By the time I had children I was successful, financially independent and viewed my marriage as a partnership of equals. The notion that I could give it all up in favour of singing ‘the wheels on the bus’ and sorting the laundry seemed extraordinary. I was uncomfortable with being financially dependent on my husband and I didn't like what it did to our relationship (there was an argument about aubergines I shan't forget). I had grown up with my mother laying out my father's clothes in the morning, but had expected something different for myself: this was not what feminism had fought for; this was not my place. How could I bring my sons up to respect women and treat them as equals if I wasn't an equal partner in my own house?

And yet, I wanted to be at home with my children. I wanted to be the one that cuddled them, read them stories and watched them grow. I wanted to make them toast when they came home from school. I felt my children needed me - and for many women, no job is more important.

And what about the state's position on all this? It seems to be ambivalent at best; fundamentally, it views you in terms of economic worth. We have an ageing population and we need people of working age to pay for them. The fact that children need nurturing, educating, and caring for is overlooked. That future generation of voters is not important right now. Politicians might pay lip service to the value of carers, but the welfare system reveals the truth – they are a burden; they've made a ‘lifestyle choice’ and they aren't ‘pulling their weight’.

The government's answer is to institutionalise childcare; to lengthen school days and cut holidays. They seem to be arguing simultaneously that looking after children is worthless, and yet too important to be left to mere parents. This benefits no one, except employers who no longer have the hassle of negotiating flexibility. It certainly doesn't benefit children or families.

The result is that we all feel confused and a little resentful. Working women will label stay at home mothers as ‘lazy’ or ‘lucky’, and stay at home mothers will accuse working mothers of being ‘selfish’. Both sides feel guilt and resentment over the choices they feel they should have had but didn't - the nagging doubt that we should be providing more, either emotionally or financially. Round and round we go, constantly striving to do better and tying ourselves up in knots.

There are simple, albeit naive, solutions. Cheaper housing and childcare would make staying at home or working a genuine choice rather than a necessity, as would a working culture that is not defined by the hours you work but by the quality of the work that you do - enabling mothers and fathers to do their bit at home and away.

Maybe this is feminism's next task: to redefine how society views the role of caring, and to challenge the notion that ‘progress’ is always moving in the same direction. A stage on from 'women competing in a man's world' would be to elevate caring to a level at which it can also be seen as successful - equal to the providing bit. Then we could, perhaps, put down our defensiveness, and acknowledge that we're all just doing our best with the circumstances we have - and that, most of the time, that's good enough.

We may never see the day when all we're competing over is who raises the most emotionally stable and contented children - but it's a nice thought.

OP posts:
Offred · 28/02/2014 20:32

It isn't employment. It is work.

Teamwill - I meant the same judgement is not applied to men generally as it is to women. My point was exactly that the stigma against caring is so great that men ARE judged when they are SAHDs despite them being men and therefore not judged generally like women are.

morethanpotatoprints · 28/02/2014 20:32

*Bonsoir8

I agree, I think all housework is work, hence the word work.
I don't do much of it here either, we all sort of muck in together.

Bonsoir · 28/02/2014 20:32

Indeed - I live in a building which was not designed for inhabitants to do their own laundry. That sort of work was sent out to the local laundry (which still exists).

So - in 1929 all laundry was outsourced work.

Offred · 28/02/2014 20:34

Maggie - they are institutions and if it was relevant to the conversation e.g. If we were discussing care of the elderly, those things might be described as such. Institutionalised care is not necessarily bad or good. It's benefits and drawbacks are dependent on other things. I don't think anyone would argue against institutionalised healthcare for example.

LindseyLM · 28/02/2014 20:34

Life is one long road of choices and decisions and the whole idea that you could "have it all" is just barking. Surely feminism is about making sure men and women face the same or similar choices and women aren't penalised i.e. fairness - not about having it all.

The heart of most decisions is financial. In the case of the sahm some people sacrifice the financial for the care/experience/sense of responsibility etc, but others can't because they value the financial more highly - maybe they judge themselves or feel that others will judge them by the financial.

If anything needs to change it's how much importance people place on the financial over everything else. Unfortunately women's quest for the financial has shifted the balance to a less healthy place than it was before - that's not their fault because why shouldn't they have careers if they choose to do so, but it is a reality. Either way a shift in priorities by society as a whole would help

TeamWill · 28/02/2014 20:35

Ah Ok Offred Smile

Offred · 28/02/2014 20:38

I think it's offensive to imply that SAHPs don't have skills to offer in paid employment Scottish. Things aren't that simple. I've got absolutely bags to offer to paid employment but all I can do which utilises my skills is unpaid work - childcare and volunteering with CAB and the NHS. The economic value of the work I provide for free is huge, not just in terms of childcare which people disagree about the economic value of but in terms of the volunteer work.

morethanpotatoprints · 28/02/2014 20:40

Maggie and Scottish

Please look up the word institution, and remove your chip about the word.
You have decided to that because the word has been used it is to goad, this says a lot about your insecurities.
Why on earth would anybody want to goad you.
You have made your choices, that you seem very happy about. Others have made their choices they are happy with, nobody needs to goad anybody in that case.
I don't want my children institutionalised for many reasons that have nothing to do with this thread nor being a sahm. But in order for this to happen I have to be a sahm.

Bonsoir · 28/02/2014 20:40

I have lots of SAHM friends and they are all, to the woman, extremely highly skilled, experienced and have masses to offer. Many of them, like me, have all sorts of PT roles and put their skills to good use beyond their families, to the extent that prioritising their children allows.

Bonsoir · 28/02/2014 20:42

Society cannot function without institutions. They are a force for the good. However, we have every right to question whether institutional life should be the major part of our existence as humans.

TeamWill · 28/02/2014 20:42

" Have it all " seems to only apply to women as in "how dare you bloody think you can have children and an interesting career"
Well fuck off Im having it all and so are lots of women who have supportive partners who don't put their careers before those of their DW/DP and pull their fingers out regarding housework and childcare.

merrymouse · 28/02/2014 20:44

Watching your own kids isn't work.nor is doing your own laundry

I think you get reported to social services for not organising some kind of childcare before you get reported for not doing laundry.

scottishmummy · 28/02/2014 20:48

Have it all,Helen gurley brown.she apparently felt misrepresented.no one has it all
Gurley brown dud do some fab quips though

“Good girls go to heaven, bad girls go everywhere.”
“Beauty can't amuse you, but brainwork—reading, writing, thinking—can.”
“My success was not based so much on any great intelligence but on great common sense.”
“Never fail to know that if you are doing all the talking, you are boring somebody.”
“Nearly every glamorous, wealthy, successful career woman you might envy now started out as some kind of schlepp.”
“What you have to do is work with the raw material you have, namely you, and never let up.”
“If you’re not a sex object, you’re in trouble.”
“A man likes to sleep with a brainy girl. She’s a challenge. If he makes good with her, he figures he must be good himself.”
“Money, if it does not bring you happiness, will at least help you be miserable in comfort.”

“How could any woman not be a feminist? The girl I’m editing for wants to be known for herself. If that’s not a feminist message, I don’t know what is.”

scottishmummy · 28/02/2014 20:50

Potato,I actually more took issue with your wee illiberal gem that you don't think any woman should be encouraged into work when she has had children. Supported if this is her decision but not considered as the norm

morethanpotatoprints · 28/02/2014 20:50

TeamWill

"Have it all" seems to only apply to women who want to work/ have a career.

I think having it all is being happy with what you have and not needing/wanting more. In that sense I have it all.

I don't need a career/job and I have a dp who is supportive of mine and the families needs, who shares domestic responsibilities and raising our children. We do it between us because that's what we want to do, out sourcing our dc for an amount of time whilst we both worked was what we didn't want.
We work when we want to, come and go as we please, because that's what we want to do. I call that having it all.

Bonsoir · 28/02/2014 20:51

When did HGB write that, scottishmummy? Thirty years ago - or forty?

Move with the times Grin

TheHoneyBadger · 28/02/2014 20:53

people are using the word 'women' on this thread whilst clearly talking about 'wives'. which is sad really when they're representing themselves as feminists and equality motivated. the words woman and wife are not synonymous.

am i seriously the only lone parent on this thread? are there really no lesbians on this thread? do women really believe the cutting edge of feminism is whether to be financially dependent on a husband or not?

feminism is looking a lot like mainstream politics and mainstream media at present ie. massively out of touch with reality and the demographics that most need representing.

if you want better rights 'in' heteronormative set ups you have to have better rights outside of it - for as long as the 'outside of it' scenario is being made less and less viable the less wiggle room and rights within it there'll be. what incentive is there for men to step up to an equal share of parenting responsibility in a context where outside of marriage they're not even legally accountable for financially supporting their own children and where women can't even access financial or legal support when being abused within it?

whatever illusion of choice you feel you have 'within' heteronormative living they are tenuous beyond belief when you envision falling outside of that lifestyle.

but that's ok because single mothers are 'other' and well, there's mothering and mothering, of course it's only worthy or good if it's done within marriage Confused of course having a parent at home matters if you're married but if not well tough titties kids and of course fathers who are married should step up and take career breaks but father's who aren't? ah well you can't expect them to contribute in any way because....?

people are so conditioined they don't see the walls of the cage.

scottishmummy · 28/02/2014 20:54

No,I'm not a wife. I don't equate term woman with wife
You're wrong

morethanpotatoprints · 28/02/2014 20:55

Scottish

Would you like it if your choice to work had been vilified, like it used to be. When mothers were bad if they worked and their kids assumed to be latch key kids?
Of course not.
By encouraging women to work who don't want to and making working mothers the default, it is doing exactly the same thing but to sahm's.
Of course women should be supported in whatever they want to do.
When you start talking about encouraging and that becoming compulsory, then that's when I object, for e.g present gov policies.

Bonsoir · 28/02/2014 20:55

I'm not a wife either. I don't equate women with wives. I have loads of friends who mothers but who are not wives.

TheHoneyBadger · 28/02/2014 20:57

and not just wives actually but middle class wives.

Sad about where mn has ended up. sure it was predominantly middle class but it did tend to encompass a lot more intelligence and awareness at one point. the middle class mumminess at least was self conscious of it's demographic and tried to think outside of it. now it seems to actually belief that white upper middle class women with 'choices galore' and 'high flying careers' they may or may not wish to continue are somehow the norm.

someone slap me for having my 'mn used to be so different' moment please. i've only been around 7 years - surely it's too soon for my 'good old days' phase?

BeaHive · 28/02/2014 20:57

Well done, OP, you've got women insulting each others' choices. Where has she gone, I wonder Confused

TheHoneyBadger · 28/02/2014 20:58

scottish - i mean 'wife' in the with or without the piece of paper sense. you can be entirely heteronormative without a certificate.

TeamWill · 28/02/2014 20:58

Fair enough morethan
I didn't outsource childcare either- but I also have a really satisfying career which I love Smile in addition to being a parent.

Being happy with" what you have" is a bit of a kick in the teeth to women who have careers they love only to be forced to give it up because they happen to be mothers and their husbands feel their careers are more important and aren't willing to take on the childcare etc themselves.

TeamWill · 28/02/2014 20:59

I used the term woman because that is my primary identity .