<<deep breath>> Ok, I know how this is going to look, I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right place, but I need some help with ds, please

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

I am preparing for a flaming but I am at my wits' end with ds and I just don't know where else to post.

He will be 3 in January, has been able to count for ages (since before he was 2), can recognise numbers up to 50, can do simple sums (2+2, count down in 2's from 10 etc), knows all his letters, has started to recognise words (his name, daddy, mummy, dd's name, cat, dog etc) and knows all his colours and shapes. He is a precocious little sod, truth be told - when I said, "Is this a rectangle, ds?" he looked at me witheringly and said, "No. It's an oblong."

His behaviour leaves a lot to be desired. He is aggressive, doesn't listen well, spits, screams, shouts, torments other children. On Tuesday we had an incident at playschool where he attacked another child and kicked them repeatedly in the face while laughing. I think even the manager was a bit freaked out by it.

I've been to see the GP today, because I'm worried about ASD/ADD etc - I was hoping to get a referral to a paediatric psychiatrist or something, but the GP said there was no point referring him because no-one would diagnose him so young. He said he thought ds was just a very bright little boy who was frustrated and needed firm boundaries and channelling.

So - my question is this: What can I do to "channel" him? I can't exactly enrol him in chess club! I do try to spend time with him playing, building train tracks, blocks, playing music, reading etc - but I have an 8 month old dd as well, who obviously takes up a lot of my time. Are there any activities that would be suitable for a not-quite 3 year old?

What about making things - clay, playdough? that sort of tactile activity, constantly kneading away at something is sometimes a good focus thing?

I would suggest you follow a two prong strategy.

He needs lots of activity to use up his energy, some kind of a sport, football or something. Is there a toddler sport activity near you?

Then something to keep his mind busy. Perhaps a foreign language? French lessons for young children can be fun, if done well.

Does he do much running around outside? You didn't mention any outdoor activities in your OP.

What about something like soccer tots?

More energetic stuff? Can you put him in the garden with old clothes on and let him explore water and mud and stuff? What's he like in the park? Nature walks, then creating collages with things he's found? Perhaps if he has a positive way of using up all that energy he won't do so much of the aggressive stuff??

When he's three, he'll probably be able to go to swimming lessons or a football or other sports club, if that's the kind of thing he likes - I breathed a sigh of relief when my DTs hit 3 and we were able to sign them up for swimming and dance class which they love.

BTW, you might well get flamed for posting on the G&T board - there seem to be certain posters who hover possessively and will demand to know why you consider this a G&T issue...

I think separating his 'bright behaviour' from his 'negative behaviour' is a good start as while they are linked it's not causally.

Yes, he is bright and needs a lot of input, likes learning and these are all positive but there is also a disparate issue of his aggression which needs to be consistently managed.

My dd is 2.5, knows all colours, numbers, shapes, can count to well above 50, understands an awful lot about the world, can add and subtract BUT she is kind, lovely, helpful, non-aggressive.

Has he always been aggressive? Can you identify when it started or why it starts now? I suppose what I mean is, channelling his energies whilst a very good thing, he has learnt these negative behaviours that might need tackling in a different way.

Just re-read my post and it sounds bloody awful.

What I mean is yes it's all bound up in his character and yes this is the right place for you to find ways of channelling all that lovely, brilliant inquisitiveness. But, at the same time confront the aggression and negative behaviour proactively and not expect the one to cancel out the other.

Am I making an iota of sense here?

Outside activities would seem to be an idea... Have you thought about a little garden for him? I'm just making one with DS (16 months old) - OK, OK... I'm making it and he's playing in the mud!! but it gets us outside and he's learning about the trees and plants and birds etc. (so can be as educational as it needs to be)

Is he an angry child (you mention aggressive, but I mean angry in himself? If he has pent up aggression or anger, then a contact / physical activity might be in order? Swimming / gym class / football all have classes for under 3s.

I would second a lanuguage - french lessons are common place, but you can learn spanish, German, Russian or chinese if you look around for lessons... That should challenge him!!!

Ooooh language classes are a great idea.

We have a garden, and he has a slide, seesaw, playhouse etc but he seems to need me there playing with him the whole time. He's not very good at playing by himself. Having said that, he'll roleplay with his kitchen or dress up by himself for....ooh minutes at a time!

SOH - don't know if you've seen my nursery threads but his aggression has definitely got worse since the nursery problems. He has always seemed "different" from other kids - at 10 months he was the only child out of my circle of friends who had never slept through, wasn't on much solids, was moving the most. That's why I was wondering about ADHD - but the GP squashed that notion pretty quickly.

The thing is, he can be a lovely, sweet kind boy when he is with adults. He just doesn't mix well with other kids - dd excepted. We have a lot of friends with children, but none of them want to play with ds anymore because he's so violent.

I should have posted this in behaviour/development, shouldn't i? Can I ask MNHQ to move it?

Are you treaing him appropriately for a two year old?

He's very clever and I bet he's articulate too. Are you sure you're allowing for the fact that he's two?

And many many 2 year olds don't mix well with other children, it's normal, albeit not desirable, behavior,.

Thing is, lots of children don't start playing well with others until they are at least 3.5 to 4yo. So that in itself is not unusual.

I have a vague recollection about the nursery problems, did you take him out of nursery? I cannot remember exactly what the problem was.

colditz - how does one treat a 2 year old? We do lots of singing, silly dancing, go to the park etc, but I feel like I'm winging it totally (don't we all?) and I just....I dunno....I don't know what to do.

MmeL - Latest nursery thread.

Ah, it was the thread that I was thinking of. Glad you pulled him out of there, it sounds dreadful.

I did not do an awful lot with my 2yos tbh. When DD was that age, DS came along. When DS was 18mths we moved house so he kind of got left to it a lot.

They both had quite a lot of social contacts from about the age of 3yo as we lived in a cul de sac that was full of children. That helped prepare DS for nursery, I think.

I am more on the benign neglect end of the scale with regard to paying attention to the DC tbh.

silly question but why not enrol him chess club...my dad taught us as soon as we were old enough to sit still for a minute (you know, start with king/ porn games etc) . I found it boring...but my sister (quite a little madam in her own way) went to grown up club aged 5! He may find it appeals to his rational side.

aside from that: there is a little boy at our playgroup who was muttered about as a vandal, but last time i went him & DD played really well together - they both raced each other for the little slide (whilst i watched worried they were going to be nasty - they weren't) and it was a shame me & his mum were so wound up, because they were obviously having so much fun (and DD was talking lots, which she only does when really excited)

now i'm sure that mum worked hard to improve his behaviour, but also there is a measure of getting out of the antisocial toddler phase.

He would never sit still long enough! But maybe when he is a bit older, who knows?

My big brother taught me chess when I was about 5 or 6, I've never been much cop at it but I know how to play. Mind you, we'd need to buy a set!

"king/ porn games etc"

Dryad, have you read Toddler Taming? I reccomend it

Avril, isn't that the one which recommends tying the bedroom door shut?

My friend has said I can borrow her Margot Sunderland book, but I need to get it off her and she is an hour's drive away!

the other thing that works really well for me is going on long walks - really wears the naughty out of her, as well as the baby.

she is also happy to play in the garden..but i don't like to watch (don't eat the snail!!!...noooooo not the fuschias) fine so long as she's in easy to wash clothes...
although you mentioned somewhere he doesn't play well by himself, he may appreciate a bit of alone time in the garden?

ah yes, your baby is very cute too

i have been trying to get mine to bounce next to the baby bouncer, because that gets them both giggling their little heads off..(though DD is too lazy and doesn't llike throwing herself around, could work for a bouncier kid?)

though yes, that one does need close watching...

Is your Ds nice to the baby?

I dotn htink that the aggression necc a) needs "channeling" or b) is a result of being bright.
I wonder if in contrast he has TOO much attention because of his developed manner of speech or oyu are expecting more of him than you would do of any other TWO year old for the same reason.

He sounds like he needs some firm rules and discipline and a bit of ignoring.

Kids can be too important imo.

That is only as a particular technique for toddlers who just won't stay in their rooms - the book seems to be mostly about setting parental expectations and making sure toddlers get plenty of quality attention

Hi Tafka - yes toddler taming is dire imho and ancient - there are far better books available

Your ds sounds a lot like mine -the precoscious bit I mean! mine now has a diagnoses of Aspergers (which is not to imply that yours has of course!)

At Mum&Toddlers group when he was just about 2 the leader asked the kids for suggestions of colours for a song we were all singing - ds piped up loudly "burgundy"
He knew the difference between opaque and transparent at that age as well

After three years of him being bored sensless in school - and school largely ignoring his needs - I am now home educating him, he is thus much happier

I have no idea what the solution is for enabling bright kids to be happy in school - but knowing what I now know I wish I had demanded the school help him sooner - as now ds wont even consider school

Chanelling your ds - hmmmmmm........
We have found having a trampoline in the garden helps - bouncing is fun!

two year olds are sods.
I dont think i liked ds3 much at this stage

he is bright - got inot bed yest am wanting to discuss the merits of the old vs the new testament fgs

i think you are giving him too much attention.