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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

When did you notice that your child was gifted and talented?

176 replies

lijaco · 16/06/2009 13:52

If your child is gifted or talented in a subject is it because you have spent time yourself teaching to your child. For example showing your child how to do something, providing your child with all the necessary resources, and giving your child encouragement by out of school activities. Simple things for example going to the library to enjoy reading. Spending quality time making your child feel good about themselves and praising them. Also having the ability to do all of the above as a parent. This is a good starting ground for any child. So if you don't get any of the above as a child you will find that you may not be counted as a gifted and talented because you have never been shown or spent time with. If a child is shown how to do something it is then that we uncover a gift or a talent. What about those children who are never shown or encouraged. How do we then know who and what is truly gifted or talented. That brings me to how the gifted and talented criteria needs to be changed as every child is at a different starting point due to lots of factors. Every child matters and every child is an individual. This brings me to the point when did you discover that your child was gifted or talented? Was it when you had been teaching your child something? or is it something that you yourself are passionate about? Did you identify it or your school? Was you aware of it?

OP posts:
FioFio · 18/06/2009 11:35

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saintlydamemrsturnip · 18/06/2009 11:41

Yes I'm well aware the idiots, morons and imbeciles have specific IQ definitions.

I wonder what the equivalent is for those lacking in EQ? Crass, insensitive patronising and arrogant certainly describe the traits of those with low EQ.

As I said you define contribution to society differently to me. And of those you choose to highlight high IQ is not necessarily the factor that makes them excel in their field. Does a neurosurgeon require a high IQ for example? It doesn't have to be stonkingly high to get into medical school, and for their day job I would have thought that dexterity and EQ would be more important.

missmem · 18/06/2009 11:44

I don't think IQ is completely fixed at birth i.e. could move up or down 20 points. It is documented that first born are usually brighter because they have more one to one time with parents. DS1 is very gifted but he loved books and when he had his IQ test he had a lot of facts that helped his score. DS2 played football 24/7 and although could name every make, model, engine capacity of any car his vocab and factual information was limited as he hated books/learning. His IQ was much lower but I actually think it is higher than it was - not that it matters.

ahundredtimes · 18/06/2009 11:45

For gifted children to prosper - into adulthood - they need to learn resilience and persistence. It's the hare and the tortoise. Natural talent will only take you so far, it is application and hard work and stubborness which will ultimately win you the race.

To my mind, that means a work ethic. I can't see that separating gifted children will give them a work ethic - or indeed a desire to prove themselves or ambition. They need to find it for themselves, no teacher can give it to them either, nor can they quash it.

I don't think gifted children are rare flowers that need to be kept in special conditions. Because once you take them out of that special condition, they will wilt.

Resilience and tenacity are the answer.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 18/06/2009 11:47

BTW idiot, moron and imbecile are no longer in use as descriptive terms and their use is considered offensive.

Is that how you improve someone's EQ I wonder. Point out to them when they are being highly offensive.

.

FioFio · 18/06/2009 11:49

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saintlydamemrsturnip · 18/06/2009 11:52

ha ha fio. You know I think about the bridge designers, surgeons, research scientists, and indeed 'idiots, morons and imbeciles' (FFS) I have met and you know what?All I want is for my children to grow up to be thoughtful and considerate of others. That above anything else.

Now if there was a scale that measured that I might be interested in the results.

foolysh · 18/06/2009 12:32

Thank you to those of you who translated Lijaco's initial remarks, I couldn't be bothered to apply my 160+ IQ (Yes, it really was measured that high, once) to make sense of what she wrote in OP.

So I was labeled Gifted a as child. I was mostly looked after from the age of 4 months by uneducated housekeepers/babysitters/nasty siblings as both my parents worked full time+. So much for the devoted parents providing super-stimulation-to-the-intellect theory. My parents didn't realise I was bright until my reading levels soared after I started school.

I've had a similar experience with my own DC.

Why does Lijaco keep banging on about this? Who is she trying to convert? Most MNetters already agree with her basic convictions, that the G&T label is a bad one, and that some parents take it too seriously.

I wouldn't mind if the thread were a genuine discussion of how do we ensure fairness for children of poor families who aren't given sufficient opportunities for expanding their intellect from an early age. (As if the topic could be discussed non-judgementally, harhar).

The research I've seen suggests (to me, as a lay person) that there is a kind of stimulation threshold, as long as a child gets enough intellectual stimulation from a young age they will develop to their full potential (assuming that they go onto similar quality schools and further opportunities). Going massively over and above that threshold for under 5s doesn't seem to make a difference though. It's when the preschool-age environment severely lacks variety that children definitely do suffer intellectualy -- perhaps irrevocably.

There's a lot of research on the Romanian orphans, what techniques worked best for them. Some psychologists say that the emotional harm can be reversed with the right approach(es), but it's harder to say about intellectual damage done in the early years by lack of environmental stimulus.

DadAtLarge · 18/06/2009 12:44

"when talking to someone who has identified herself as being the mother of a child with severe learning disabilities"
That your child has severe learning disabilities does not make him a bad person. He could grow up to be the most thoughtful and considerate person and a first choice as a friend or husband. But when it comes to operating on me I'd prefer someone whose sheer IQ allows him/her to accumulate extensive medical knowledge and skill that took him/her to the top of the profession. That is insensitive but it would be the preference of most people here. But they won't say (or may find better ways to say it than I have).

"For gifted children to prosper - into adulthood - they need to learn resilience and persistence...They need to find it for themselves, no teacher can give it to them either, nor can they quash it "
I think you underestimate the difference teachers make to the lives of children.

"All I want is for my children to grow up to be thoughtful and considerate of others. That above anything else."
And that's what I want from my kids as well. But that's a choice. High IQ isn't a choice. And we either harness it to benefit all of us or ... we lose.

"As a civilised society we have to look after the most vulnerable in our society by means of unemployment benefits and disability benefits. People cannot help times of hardship or people cannot help being disabled."
So all the more reason to recognise who tomorrow is going to pay for that - the people who are financially successful. If people with higher IQs are going to make a disproportionate financial contribution to help support those who need support then it's in everyone's interest to help them reach their full potential. I fail to see any logical reasons - though I admit there are numerous emotional ones - why that is not the case.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 18/06/2009 12:58

oh for goodness sake DAL. I am not offended by your suggestion that you don't want my son operating on you. He will require 24 hour care for the rest of his life, he's not going to be operating on anyone.

I was simply staggered that you would use outdated offensive language such as idiot, imbecile and moron to someone with a child with LD's- and I cannot understand why you did. It served no purpose in your argument and could only offend. It doesn't strike me as particularly emotionally intelligent. Perhaps you think that doesn't matter. As I said you value different things than me.

Do you have any evidence that high IQ relates to earning power? The amazingly intelligent people I know (all very self- motivated btw) became academics (and being very bright does not necessarily correlate with becoming a professor either) - they are not high earners.

FioFio · 18/06/2009 13:02

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KerryMumbles · 18/06/2009 13:09

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ahundredtimes · 18/06/2009 13:12

Also you know, you really don't want the person with the highest IQ available operating on you. That does NOT translate to a good surgeon. You want someone who has sufficient intelligence to get them to and through medical school but then you want someone with:

a steady hand

nerves of steel

confidence

experience

sensitivity and know how

none of that is related to IQ as far as I know.

ahundredtimes · 18/06/2009 13:14

Oh and I don't think I underestimate teachers at all. I value them. On the other hand I don't expect them to be teaching persistence and resilience, which is what I was referring to. .

DadAtLarge · 18/06/2009 13:39

"I was simply staggered that you would use outdated offensive language such as idiot, imbecile and moron to someone with a child with LD's"
I did not mean it for you and I sincerely apologise that it does seem that way directed. I used various quotes in my post without consideration for which one was from whom and what their personal circumstances are.

"Also you know, you really don't want the person with the highest IQ available operating on you."
I know that and so I choose my words carefully ;) you might want to check the "top of the profession" bit again. And, yes, he needs various skills but he wouldn't be at the top of his profession if he had an IQ of, say, 65. My guess is that every top surgeon in this country is well above average in intelligence and many are very highly intelligent (in addition to their knife and other skills)

"You cannot be a surgeon without a team of theatre nurses, ward nurses, district nurse, admin staff, cleaners, and this is the same within any hierachy"
Yes. Except the surgeon could probably do the cleaners' job very easily. Which one is more dispensible, which one has society got more invested in? So, yes, those cleaners all do a very valuable job and all but they are hardly the ones making the biggest contribution in that operating theatre.

posieparker · 18/06/2009 13:45

At 7 my IQ was 138, now I feel quite thick.....

Kathyis6incheshigh · 18/06/2009 13:52

The surgeon could probably do the cleaner's job but quite possibly not the nurses' jobs and many of the managerial jobs. Just picking cleaner out of Fio's list is a bit like selective quoting.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 18/06/2009 13:53

Depends whether you have MRSA on your ward doesn't it?

You need to be reasonably bright to get to medical school. It doesn't necessarily require the highest grades. Something like optometry often requires similar- occasionally higher A level grades for entry. To get through medical school you need a good memory. Once you have an IQ that is high enough to cope with medical school (and really it does not need to be that high) then your IQ will make little difference to your career progression. You seem to think that IQ determines success in a chosen career. Is there any evidence for that? No of course a surgeon wouldn't have an IQ of 65, he wouldn't have got into medical school. Could someone with an IQ of 100 get into medical school? Certainly. Could they be a brilliant surgeon? Of course.

I believe using terms such as moron, idiot and imbecile shows a stunning lack of emotional intelligence whether directed at me or not. If I ever come across ds2 or ds3 using those terms as part of some sort of intellectual point scoring exercise I would be incredibly disappointed in them, no matter what their IQ was. They would be demonstrating a lack of intelligence in areas that matter far more than paper and pen IQ tests.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 18/06/2009 13:54

(I know managers weren't on the list btw - but all the different groups of people will have managers, cleaners included.)

MollieO · 18/06/2009 13:57

If only I didn't have to work full time, my ds would be a genius .

pagwatch · 18/06/2009 14:00

FWIW DadatLarge. Your post wasn't aimed at me either but I still find the use of imbecile moron etc offensive.
Does one really need to know who is in your audience before you use shitty terms like that on an open forum?

The fact that DS1 is incredibly bright but we only realised when his teacher pointed it out to us. He then went through many years of hiding it because he had learnt quickly to loathe the attention.

But why I am getting dragged into one of Lijacos oh so frequent G&T bashing threads I have no idea. DS1 is not on a G&T programme.
[dim emoticon]

madwomanintheattic · 18/06/2009 14:03
DadAtLarge · 18/06/2009 14:34

"I believe using terms such as moron, idiot and imbecile shows a stunning lack of emotional intelligence whether directed at me or not."
I consider them, used in their scientific sense, less derogatory than thick or slow. They are not PC, they are not modern and their use may say something about me, my age, or both.

However, the facts are the facts: People with very high IQ have contributed disproportionately more to our lives than people of very low IQ. Children of very high IQ have the potential to make proportionately larger contributions in future than those of very low IQ. The National Strategies emphasises encouraging G&T children to excel because it's seen as "an investment (their emphasis) in our future society, economy, culture and intellectual capital"

"The surgeon could probably do the cleaner's job but quite possibly not the nurses' jobs"
I doubt he'd take very long to learn it.

ahundredtimes, I've got personal experience of how screwed up thinking by teachers can mess up the life of a gifted child.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 18/06/2009 14:38

Oh for goodness sake DAL even the journal Mental Retardation has changed its name. There really is nothing clever about being so obviously offensive.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 18/06/2009 14:39

"The surgeon could probably do the cleaner's job but quite possibly not the nurses' jobs"
I doubt he'd take very long to learn it. "

Do you have any idea what nurses actually do?