Early Learning of Numbers/Shapes/Puzzles, Late Talker: Please Help!

[BlueberryPancake]

Sorry this is a long post! I have so far posted on Special Needs but I'll give it a go here and see if I might get different suggestions.

DS2 is 2 years old and is non-verbal. He says three words (Yes, Mum, Woof). He is generally quiet but he hums a lot, hums the rhythm of songs, and rhythm of words/sentences.

I remember him being under one year old and being very interested in shapes and numbers. When reading a book to him, he would often point at the page numbers. He would point at number plates on cars. Door numbers. His favorite books have numbers in them. From 18 months, he has been able to point at the right number if we ask him 'where is 6', 'where is 2', etc. He can now identify many double digit numbers.

Same with shapes. He loves books with lots of shapes and can identify most of the common shapes, and I'm sure that if we'd push him he'd identify much more complex shapes. He is excellent at doing puzzles and shape sorters, mcuh better and faster than his 3 year old brother. His receptive communication is good, he understands quite complex instructions. He can concentrate on a toy for a very long time.

Apart from those special things, he plays with the same toys as other kids his age, socialises well, looks at people in the eyes, makes himself clear by pointing at things and using basic signs. He is a happy little thing.

I have seen various specialists on the NHS, including speech therapists, who all say that he is ok, developing normally, has normal behaviour.

BUT his is not speaking!!!

Has anyone else had this/heard about something like this?

DS actually said a word today: he said Burp, completely out of the blue. He pronounced all the letters, but the word is completely out of context. He repeated it often today, how strange. Obviously his big brother started saying burp as well, so I had two boys running oround the park shouting burp at each other. Nice.

What worries me Yurtgirl is that he doens't try to immitate language. He can imitate sounds, but it's as if his outgoing language hasn't 'switched on'. It is very strange. He can repeat melodies, if I play a simple melodie on the piano he starts huming the tune and doing the signs for the song (such as twinkle twinkle) but he doesn't even try to say 'star'. He doesn't try to say anything. The post I did just above this one, with the word Burp, this is the first word he has said, apart from 'yes' and 'mum' (which he has said occasionally). I'm sure that he'll speak, but I wanted to know from parents with similar children how to best help him 'switch on' and quite a few things came out which I will try.

Hi Blueberry,

Yes your son at 2 is virtually identical to both my logical barely-verbal children at that age save that they both had/have receptive language delay and didn't have problems making sounds. DS1 (6.6) now thrives in every way possible and is considered "likely to excel", DS2 (3.9) will, I hope, also do so in time but we're not out of the woods yet.

I have read "The Einstein Syndrome" and there is an awful lot of good in it (it restores common sense centre stage for one thing) and it needed writing. For me, the flaw is that he won't accept that techniques that help children "with autism" also help children with delayed language, even though kids with autism share many of their secondary characteristics with kids with language delay.

For a much better analysis of the difference between ASD and other issues I would strongly recommend Stanley Greenspan who is probably the world's leading expert on childhood developmental disorders. Look on his website and you will see articles on midiagnosis.

You talk to your son in 3-word sentences. I also did this instinctively with DS1. You sound as though you would appreciate the program set out in "It Takes Two to Talk" which is a book for late talkers (does not mention autism or other syndromes at all) and I recommend that to you.

I want to suggest - gently - that you keep an open mind on receptive language skills. See my threads in SN on two radio programmes from the lady that runs the "teachmetotalk.com" site for milestones at 2 years old. Please keep a very very open mind about receptive language. It is underrecognised. My DS1 had a pretty bad receptive language delay - he has completely outgrown it and DS2 is outgrowing his too albeit more slowly.

I also want to suggest (and this isn't something I've dreamed up from mere personal experience, this is very very important) that you adopt a strongly visual element to all your communications. All those skills that your son has, they are all visual aren't they? He thinks by looking and observing and responding logically doesn't he? He is developing his intelligence by thinking visually. So you need to connect his language development to his area of great strength, which is the visual side. Unfortunately most resources on this are aimed at autistic children (so it's hard to concentrate on the good stuff because you keep thinking "but he's not autistic") but you can start by getting a camera, sticking it in your bag, routinely taking photos of everywhere you go, sticking them on the wall by the back door, and pointing to them when you tell him where you are going.

Best wishes, it can be a lonely life when you are satisfied that your child does not have autism yet you are quite clear that he has a problem with language. Look on the bright side, at least no-one has used the phrase "in denial" on this thread yet!!!!!!

Hi my DS now 3 started talking around his 3rd birthday with very little before that though he would make different sounds. He also didn't really like signing classes. He was always fascinated by colours, shapes, numbers & then letters. He learnt to speak & read at the same time as he started to read phonics books and watch phonics dvds which taught him both. Try CBeebies Fun with Phonics, Joly Phonics Books and Letterland magazine. My DS still loves them and talks very well now with a great vocabulary. His male cousin & grandpa were also late talkers, sometimes it is a family trait on the male side. If he is like my DS then he really will be fine - I had spoken to private & NHS speech therapists who all thought he should be reviewed & I spent time researching the Autism Spectrum for possible answers and just wish I hadn't.

Hi blueberry pancake. just wanted to say that read all of this as dodgy laptop playing up buymy dd was similar at 2. she had about 15 words at 2 but 10 of them were the numbers 1-10. the others were the names of the teletubbies. (no mummy daddy etc....)

at 18 months old she could do a 32 peice jigsaw and if you geve her a picture of a number up to 10 she could collect you the right number of objects (or vice versa)

what sorted things for us was me going back to work and her going to a friend in the day with "normal" bright kids. she was speaking in sentaces within a matter of weeks!

I think I was sub conciously focused on her mathematical ability and she mirrored my focus. incedentally she made little to no progress until I went part time and can at 2.10yrs count to 200+ (please note this is very tedious on a daily basis)

she was assessed for autism about a month ago and whilst she didn't completely get the all clear they do not think she is autistic

hope this helps

Blueberry Pancake, that book called The Einstein Syndrome sounds exactly like ds2. He has just been assessed as being on the 55th centile for verbal intelligence (but this hides the fact that his cognitive language is WAY ahead of his spoken language, which is well below average and he is having SALT). His logical/analytical/mathematical intelligence is on the 98th centile. He is also very sensitive to music, and can sing perfectly in tune, and read all his letters, but can not put a sentence together.

Ds1 is good at maths/logic etc, in a similar way.
Had 3 words at 2 years.
Hasn't shut up since about 2.5.
We did worry, and he did briefly see a speech therapist.
hope "burp" is the first of many...