Headteacher's doesn't want ds at the school.

[avenanap]

Hiya, I have posted before about my enthusiastic ds, he's very bright and has problems relating to other children, he doesn't have apergers, he's getting better now and is ever learning how to be caring and considerate to others. He has friends and activities outside school and is lovely at home but he can be a bit of an odd ball and a bit daft (he's a boy!).

I had a meeting with the head on monday, he thinks the school has failed ds (ds has skipped a year) and he wants me to pack him off to a strict boys boarding school. I've recieved a letter today repeating this but he's also saying that he thinks ds should go in September 2008 and that he'll help me look. I think that he's wrote my ds off. They are doing nothing to help him socially except tell him off when he does the wrong thing. ds and friends have noticed that ds gets told off more than the rest for doing the same things. I have been told by several of the children at the school that ds is a nice boy.
He's got a visit and assessment at a new school next week, they appear to know what they are doing but I don't want ds to go back to the school if he is not wanted. I don't know what to do. His current school cost so much money and I don't want him to be unhappy and pay for the privilage. If I move him now and owe them money they will tell the new school. I can't afford to pay them and the new school, I am not sure what to do. I'm so sad.

Morning avenanap

Check out the larger state schools in your area. My ds goes to a junior school (so years 3-6 only, but has 90 children per yeargroup) They subdivide each yeargroup into High, Medium and Low ability for literacy and numeracy. The High ability group in ds's year (year 4, ds is 8) consists of children who all received very high marks in their Y2 SATs and who received the equivalent of SAT level 5 at end of Y3 tests. Some boys in this group are working on secondary level maths. Likewise, the top literacy group appears to be lightyears ahead. (I say appears as ds is in the bottom set for both, he achieved SAT level 3 equivalent at the end of Y3 assessments)
So I believe the provision for bright pupils is there in state schools, not just in private schools.

I am also astounded that the head of your ds's current school can make decisions about(never mind actually speak to the head of) your ds's next school. Since when do others decided which school our dc attend?

I take it you do not want your ds to attend a boarding school 200 miles away?

Is there any way you can have a meeting with the current head about how to improve the situation so your ds can stay at this school?

I don't agree with your current head, avena, sorry if that's the impression I gave - I think he sounds like rather a dinosaur.

I just mean that different schools have different policies on managing difficult or challenging behavior, and it might be an idea to check that their philosophies match your own.

Morning ladies, you didn't give me that impression colditz, I welcome all opinions and points of view and it's good for me to look at the problem from different perspectives. I think he means well but he doesn't know ds as well as he should to be able to comment. I think he see's me as a single mum with no clue and no one to help that needs rescuing.

We live in an innercity so all of the local schools are full to capacity or else I would have found him a place at a small state school. The secondary school in our catchment area is in special measures due to the behaviour of pupils and exam results so I don't think it's a good idea to send him there. He's a bully target, small, bright and a bit cheeky at times. I have told the heas on several occasions that I have no intention of packing my child off and away from the only person that has ever shown him love and care. If he were to go to a school 200 miles away I would be going with him. I do not feel that it is right that a child should be sent away from their family unless there really was no other option. I have not given up on my child and I do not expect a school to give in so easily, his behaviour has improved so much but the head's not thinking of how ds behaves now. I intend to meet with him at the start of next term (if ds is still there!), I think the head was packed off at an early age and he believes that it is in my ds's best interest. Ds has been out with me today and he has been absolutely lovely. He's been polite and considerate to everyone he has met, we have aquired a new hampster, he has been so caring towards it, handled it so gently that I was almost in tears. He was telling a lady he met in the shop about how much he liked the hampster, and that in a few minutes it would be his so he could take it home and look after it. It was so sweet. he's even put some of his prized lego on the top of the cage. I've never seen him share this side of himself to others before, let alone an animal. I really did almost cry.

avenanap - your ds sounds truly delightful

I hope you get somewhere with the discussion with the head, let us know how you get on...

I am confused by you and your ds Aven to be honest.

I posted on your thread last week about how your ds had been asked not to come back to his sports clubs, how the other parents at the school asked for him not to be their child's class.

Something is going on here with either you or your ds. The Head sounds like he's trying to get a message through to you of some sort.

I don't want to criticize your ds, there's no point, if he's struggling then he needs help not criticism. But your comments about him are very difficult to follow. Is he getting adequate help and support? Are you sure he is flinching because he thinks people are going to hit him, or is it more than that? Perhaps he has more serious social problems than you think?

I understand that 'defensiveness' about having a child who is a bit 'different', but also you need to be honest about what's going on. Is he being asked to leave this school? Why? Are you confident that things will be better at the next school?

hello ahundredtimes, I'm confused aswell. ds has never been asked not to return to any of his sports club, a couple of the parents of the class he should be in (he's skipped a year)have said they don't want him in their child's class because he is uncaring towards them (this is what I have been told by the head, not anyone else). I know that children's behaviour changes dependent on where they are, I have one teacher saying he's no bother, one teacher saying he hardly knows ds is there and the head saying he's uncaring and opinionated. As far as I'm aware he's not getting support at school, the head has told me they have a zero messing around policy, he arranged a male teacher to mentor him in september but meetings only take place if ds goes to see him for chocolate, even then it's an are you ok? yes! Good. See you tomorrow, type meeting.
He doesn't flinch with everyone, he's fine with his friends and my friends (and me). His head is suggesting he should be sent to a boys boarding school in September instead of returning to his school. As problems only occur at playtime when he has nothing to do and at pe with a male pe teacher who shouts at him and throws things at him, I am hoping that no such teachers are at his next school and I know that they have activities in playtimes. The teachers at the new school are more easy going and have the ability to guide him without telling him off.

It's very difficult for me to say what the problem is, I'm going by what the head has told me, as I've never seen him be uncaring, I do ask ds if he has done things that are kind and he tells me that he's helped people that have fallen over, opened doors for people etc. I have asked his head to tell me what exactly ds has done to offend people so that I can find out how to help him or find some people that can help him but the head hasn't done this. I can only go on what I have witnessed myself, which is very little of the behaviour his head says he has.
I am aware of ds's faults, he can be rude sometimes but I am working with him on this and encouraging him to treat others as he treats me. I am trying to help him to show his caring, helpful side to others. I am trying to encourage him to think about the feelings of others, to watch people walking for example and try and think about whether they are sad. He's responding to this very well and very quickely. I am open to suggestions as to what else I can do though. .

Hi, just wanted to chip in that my two siblings and I went to state schools and we were all at least three years ahead of wherever we were supposed to be at the time! The state system was great for us and I loved school. So don't knock / discount it. If you are the type of person who takes a lot of notice of results, it's worth knowing that the results of the really good state schols are on a par with the indys (round here at least).

Sorry, I've just read about your loacl state schools. Although I wuold add that going into special measures could be the best thing to happen to some schools. I know the schools in my area pretty mwell, having worked in four of them! The thing that strikes me is that schools do wax and wane in their desirability; one school I am deeply impressed with here was in special measures five years ago. My dcs' school, which just got 'Outstanding' from Ofsted, was in a real mess after the head walked out six years ago.

I've just read in the TES that high-achieving kids are actually more likely to do better in average or below average secondaries than they would have done in high-flying state schools /indies. This makes sense to me as teachers in less high flying schools give heaps of encouragement and itme to kids who are likely to churn out the A grades (that was my experience of school anyway).

If you feel that there is even the tiniest glimmer of possibility of going stateside (as it were), arrrange to see the SENCO and G&T co-ordinator in the local school and take it from there. While you're there, pretend to be lost and ask some stray kids for directions; this will give you an insight into how polite / nice / articulate they are! (a Roseylea trick!)

It's a complicated business, choosing the "right" school, and not as obvious as some would think (IMHO anyway).

Thankyou Roseylea. I'm afraid that the school has had a pretty rotten reputation ever since I moved here 12 years ago, which is sad really. You're right, it is very hard, they are all really enthusiastic about him going when I talk to them, there have been a few offering places in September but I know I need to iron out the problems at the school ds is at now. I don't want him to start a new school and for him to have the same problems but I have not been told exactely what they are so I'm having to tackle behaviour that I am able to see myself. I'm just going on what his head is saying about him, part of me thinks that the head's only been there for a few months, he's spent very little time with ds, it's his first headship. I've spoken to a friends child who attends the school about ds, he's said that people like him (he's very honest). Children talk, play and joke with him on the way in and out of school, ds has told me that no one has ever talked to him about his behaviour or being uncaring so I have no clue as to what's been going on or how to tackle any problems ds has. It's all really confusing.

I've been moaned at by the family because it's too far for them to go . Given the complaints from the head I'm not sure it's wise to take him away from his family. I spoke to Whitgift, they are very strict but have a place availiable in September. They have asked for information from the school which they have yet to provide. This was almost three weeks ago. Kings don't have space until 2009. There's a school closer to where we live that's just had a new head, it was really nice when we visited, ds has an asessment day next week but it's based on his age and not his ablity so I'm not too concerned. They have given me a busary form to fill in just incase I can't get a job. Burser didn't look very happy about it though.

just a quick thought - if I understand correctly, current thinking about dealing with bright kids is that skipping a year is really not the way to deal with it. it's lazy (and clearly not working for your ds). just because a kid has reached a certain standard doesn;t mean they should be in a class with kids a year older than them (a year's quite a lot when you;re 8). Is your ds perhaps confused by this? he might feel unwanted, different, etc. at dd's state school they do extension work, they divide the kids into ability groups for different subjects. moving kids up a year is never done. I'd really consider looking at your state options (is moving a possibility? could be cheaper than school fees) and I'd be really hesitant about committing to fees on the basis of a £25k job that you haven;t got yet. it really doesn't sound like the answer to me.

where do you live, Avenanap? In Surrey?

Why are you so sure your son doesn't have Aspergers? A lot of the behaviour you describe is very Aspergers like.

Celia: They are waiting for the information from the school and admissions is going to talk to the head so she said there are no guarantees.

hatwoman: this is why current head feels that he's failed ds, it was old head's decision to move ds as the old head was taking over the class and she thought that she could help him. Then she buggered off. I was really hesitant anyway at her plans but the teacher he would have had was too laid back. He had seriously overtaken everyone in the class though and there was alot of the green eyed monster there , do you think it was this that made parents not want him moved back? There were quite a few children who were really unhappy about him winning all the competitions and beating them in exams. The children and parents are really competitive.
I don't think ds is confused, he gets on really well with the children in his class and has made alot of friends. The fees shouldn't have been a problem as ds was not due to move to a senior school until September 2009, giving me plenty of time to find a job. I have explained this to the schools that I have approached but they are keen for him to start this september.

Hi Dinny, we are east midlands, nottingham.

Nikos, ds does not have aspergers, I've checked, he only has one trait, which is socially inapt. Once he's told what he's done and the consequences he never repeats. there' no lists or anything else. I've seen a psychologist, he doesn't think he has this either, psyc was not an educational one though, he suggested he was bored.

"he thinks that ds's problems stem from living in a single parent family and not having strong male role model to follow"

" a couple of the parents of the class he should be in (he's skipped a year)have said they don't want him in their child's class because he is uncaring towards them (this is what I have been told by the head, not anyone else)"

Haven't read all comments, but very about your head.

He seems to write off single parents which to me is very dinosaurish, and what is the relevance of other parents not finding your son 'caring' enough towards their children when deciding which class he should be in and why is he telling you what other parents have said. I am sure you have already thought about this, but is there somebody else who could give you better advice about how he could be served educationally?

I think if you are planning on skipping him even further ahead then you need a proper assessment by a good educational psychologist. The impression I get from your threads is that you deaparately want the best for him, but you don't know what that is. And the professionals who should be helping you (the current head, the psychologist you refer to) just don't seem to be giving you anything concrete to go on.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm having a go. I'm not at all. But it sounds like you need a plan.

The plan was to move him next september when he as 10 as this is when all his class mates left aswell. this would have given me enough time to finish my course and find a job, ds would not have had to stay an extra year, repeat a year or go back into his old class. I contacted whitgift because they start at 10 or 11. They said they may be able to take him this september, the school ds is being assessed at next week also said they may have a place for him this september, they requested info from ds's current head but told him that I was lookin for ds to start this september. I think this is what may have annoyed him! I have explained to him I did not want him to leave until Next September and he seemed ok about it, this was about 4 weeks ago. The one he's being asessed at next week takes ages 3-13 so they can move him into his age group if they wish. Does all of this make sense?

Thanks Fallen and madame. I don't think that you are having a go, I asked the head if I should have ds asessed by a professional and he's told me there's no need. He thinks ds has a trait of aspergers, he told me that he's worked with children who have aspergers and they are different to how ds is. It's all really confusing. One minute he's saying this, then he say's ds is uncaring, insensitive, uncooperative, doesn't listen or respect the views of others yet I see none of this, nor does his teachers, friends etc. I need someone to back me up against the head!

I was very shocked when he told me what other parents had said, I had no idea, it's not at all like ds and this has never been mentioned before.

I'm not sure whether to have a chat with ds's teacher Deputy head thinks ds tries to argue himself out of trouble (I agree, has been delt with) and can wind people up (I also agree, appears ds asks people to play too much, this has been delt with. I've ordered him some books on friendships aswell). I've spoken to a friend who sometimes takes him to school, she thinks he used to be rude and used to wind people up, she thinks he's changed though and said he no longer does this.

I'm so confused!

I don't mean necessarily to see if he has Aspergers (and I would recommend going down a medical route for that kind of diagnosis) although I would be extremely of the Head's ability to in any way diagnose.

I mean to look at his edicational and social needs. Because he is skipping ahead they are really closely associated I think.

An assessment might give you a better idea of how ready he is to deal with being with children who are older than he, and whether it is the best way to deal with his intellectual needs.

"He's bored" just doesn't tell you enough. It doesn't tell you the best way to relieve the boredom. It isn't necessarily by moving up a year (or more), although this can work with some children. I have taught a boy, with AS as it happens, for whom it worked well, but I have also taught a gifted child who stayed with his peers and was able to access extension activities through the local university and NAGTY, who also did very well. Both of these were in state schools, and after assessment by educational psychologists.

blimey arguing yourself out of trouble - that is so familiar. dd's biggest fault. the most minor thing that would so not result in a bollocking (eg breaking something by accident) she just can;t say "whoops, sorry" - she has to construct some girt big excuse, justification or (at its worst) reason why it was someone else's fault. your ds sounds, to me, like a pretty normal, sometimes irritating, bright kid. I say this as the parent of one.