Year 5 CAT scores

[Nosuchthingastoomuchcheese]

New here but just wanted some advice. Just dropped my summer born son (I think that's relevant as he is one of the youngest in his year) at school. He's year 5. The headteacher came up to me to talk about his CAT scores. Said they are the best scores she's ever seen in her career, not just from her school but other schools too and the teachers were just all blown away. We've always known he was clever and loves maths and he wants to do the grammar test but never been told anything like this about him before!

Any advice? We've been through the grammar system before and he wants to do some practise papers and books so will sort that. We haven't ever planned on getting a tutor though.

Bump! Got the results now. He got 100 percent.

Well done to your son! What sort of advice are you looking for?

If he's getting those kind of scores, he won't need a tutor . . .

I guess I just want to know what we should do for him. Should school be stretching him? He does say the maths is too easy sometimes.
Knew he was bright but this has blown us away a bit.

Also hes a total perfectionist, very hard on himself and puts himself down. What's the best way to help him with this? He's always been top of his class and is sporty too but no confidence even though we boost him up all the time and also say intelligence, achievement isnt as important as being kind and a good friend. That sort of thing.
He's a lovely sweet boy.

If the HT came to talk to you, it gives you a perfect reason to ask the school what they are planning to do in regards to stretching him. Speak to the teacher and ask for meeting to discuss.

If you want him to sit for grammar, then enter. If not, then don't.
I would just make sure, as much as you can, that he is mentally robust enough for grammar, speaking from experience.

Thank you I think that is my worry. Is he strong enough for grammar and the pressure?

The results aren't usually expressed as a percentage. Do you mean he scored 120 across the board?

168 out of 168.

I just said 100% as easier

I thought they were out of 120, per discipline so I'm patently out of touch.

KS2 is out of 120, per discipline, though I thought CATS was out of 150...

The paperwork said the following-

Verbal 48/48
Quantitative 36/36
Non-verbal 48/48
Spatial 36/36

I'm not in a grammar area so have no experience

but surely the pressure in grammar schools is the pressure to do well and get good results? - which someone who's worked their arse off to scrape a pass and get in will spend five years worn down by, but which someone who gets full marks on the aptitude test will simply assume is going to happen like it always does...

In my limited experience, the children who find Results Pressure the worst are the ones who have to work really hard to get their expected level (which of course then remains high because their previous results were worked really hard for). The kids who are effortlessly achieving top grades just get on with the work they've been set, whether that's every subject every day or a couple of worksheets over the weekend.

That's a really good point!

But shouldn't there be a standardised score that the raw marks are converted to, to take into account age?

Anyway, if you want home to enter for grammar, you'll need to know which exams they sit, as all schools are different, so that he can familiarise himself with the format of the papers.
11+ forum will give you best up-to-date advice on this.

Thanks. Ah ok I will have another look for raw score.
My daughter did the grammar three years ago so will have to check which exam it is.

I think you have the raw score. The standardised score for Cats is done on a similar distribution to an iq score with the maximum score being 140+

Pages 14 and 15 provide full details at the link below but 100% on the CAT raw scores is definitely 140+ which will be the 99.9%+ percentile. Your son appears to be extremely gifted. He'd almost certainly get a scholarship at many independent schools or a means tested bursary if you qualify financially.

www.gl-assessment.co.uk/sites/gl/files/images/Files/Testwise/CAT3-guidance.pdf

@merryhouse sadly your theory isn't true in our case.
We entered dd for the 11+ after moving and realising the schools were dire.
On the final day of year 5, I asked her head if she would be capable. Absolutely was the answer.
So, 11 weeks prior to the test, she looked at practice papers and did a few to familiarise herself.
She passed with an out of catchment place, this is where they take the top score down, not just that they just got a pass mark like the catchment kids, so she did well.

Those are great scores. Do remember that there is more time pressure for the 11 plus and the situation might be quite different especially if the CATS were done individually on a computer rather than in a claas test setting. Also check whether there is a separate English paper which CATS don't as specifically test for, things such as spelling, punctuation, inference.

Hi why is your school testing NVR and VR?

Is it a private school?

For primary I didn't think schools would test on nvr or vr?

@Nosuchthingastoomuchcheese congrats, your ds is very bright and possibly a genius. I agree with all the positive advice given.

I would get back in contact with the school. It must be nice for the HT to contact with such good news. Ask them with to do next, options for secondary school, 11+ and how to support him so he isn’t bored.

On maths, have a look at Uk maths challenge website. There are past papers on there if you dig around that he could have a look at. Lots of resources available websites, bond books.

Consider grammar school and private school options. Do the tours and think about it. He would be eligible for bursaries if required and you would have to fill out all the forms. It would be very financially worthwhile.

I note your point in his perfectionism which is good because he is motivated to do well and is naturally clever. Most kids seem to be lazy and clever so it’s a struggle to get them to work and concentrate. But over excessive perfectionism can be detrimental. I know one close family member who has just got to their first choice university after a struggle and only to get there and realise they are not the genius that they were in their small a level group. Just average in a top world class English university full of very, very bright people. And unsympathetic stuffy old lecturers who have seen it all before and won’t give any leeway in a pandemic. I don’t want to go off on a tangent but they have decided to come home and reconsider their options. My point is you are doing exactly the right thing by telling him to be kind and that he is a sweet boy. Being nice and empathic is better than being smart and arrogant imo.

Being sporty is a really good thing. Playing a team sport is really good because he learns to work and play in a team and also as he gets older enjoy the friendships. And also that losing is not the end of the world. Too many kids grow up and because their parents ‘fix’ the problems they find it hard when they leave home. I am not suggesting this is you at all. Just putting forward an observation.

You have a very nice problem op. Most people on this thread are desperate for tutoring advice and first hand knowledge of 11+ exam technique and the schools.

No.notprivate