School for the gifted

[NameChangedNoImagination]

If there was a school for the gifted, would you send your child? I would have loved one when I was a child. Where learning is accelerated to your own pace and where you have time and encouragement to study special interests.

I was academically gifted. Went to grammar and a top uni. It just meant my life at school was super easy and fun as i just flew through o and a levels and could do lots of interesting hobbies out of school, i built a computer, wrote some early comouter games and used to desgin and make very complicated soft toys plus read constantly. It was great.

It didn't matter to me that my mates and sometimes teachers weren't as bright, it just made my own life easier!

In ds's school £108,000 of funds are allocated to help supprt the achievment of the lowest ability children and those with significant SEN plus there are numerous initiatives the school say don;t cost them any extra but is part of them prioritising their existibng provision.

The provision for the most able students is to take them on the odd visit (local university outreach day type things) each year.

Get the able kids to do stuff out of school? They just need to plod through GCSES, get top grades, ditto A levels then get to a good uni where they should be able to stretch themselves fully

There's no point demenading the school stretch them beyond 9s at gcse which presumably they are on for.

Comefromaway

That's fine though right? Of course lower ability kids should have more investment. Able kids should have curious minds, be allowed to take books in if they finsih everything (our state secondary does this) if they've finished early. Curious minds mean you rarely get bored!

“The children are taught to the GCSE curriculum and not beyond.”

Yep. That’s a school! I don’t want limited resources going on teaching clever children beyond GCSE until all children can access the curriculum properly. If you can easily ace your GCSEs you don’r need teaching to develop your interests and explore further.

“Top sets, resources? Where? You've obviously not been in any schools round here recently”
Resources=books and the internet.
Most comprehensive schools have top sets.

Where does the money for this stuff out of school come from? NA books? Our local libraries are all closing or reduced their opening hours so it isn't available to kids out of school time.

And by the time they've plodded through GCSE's and A levels to get to a good uni they are competing against the kids who have had all the advantages via tutors or private schooling or whatever, if they even get as far as applying becasue ny then its been knocked into them that they shouldn't allow their cleverness to show.

Yes, most comps have top setd, but as I have repeatedly set, they are the largest class sizes and actually fairly mixed ability in that for example top set maths is kids who are predicted to achieve anything between Grades 6-9) which is quite wide really.

Yep. That’s a school! I don’t want limited resources going on teaching clever children beyond GCSE until all children can access the curriculum properly. If you can easily ace your GCSEs you don’r need teaching to develop your interests and explore further

I totally agree.

“And by the time they've plodded through GCSE's and A levels to get to a good uni they are competing against the kids who have had all the advantages via tutors or private schooling or whatever”

If they’re that bright they’ll get the grades.

Books are freely available through our comp school library. I would see buying books for my academically bright child as a good investment personally and would eat jackets and beans twice a week to do it.

And by the time they've plodded through GCSE's and A levels to get to a good uni they are competing against the kids who have had all the advantages via tutors or private schooling or whatever

Huh? Are we not talking about super bright kids here? I thought we were talking about kids who get 9s on a regular basis easily.

If you are talking about kids who need extra tutoring to get 9s then they are not gifted.

“becasue ny then its been knocked into them that they shouldn't allow their cleverness to show.”

Hmm. This is something I hear about a lot. Not something I see happening much IRL- where the children who are bullied tend to be the other end of the spectrum.

Books are freely available through our comp school library.

That's fantastic, I wish that were the case here.

I would see buying books for my academically bright child as a good investment personally and would eat jackets and beans twice a week to do it.

So would I, but I'm in the minority around here.

Hmm. This is something I hear about a lot. Not something I see happening much IRL- where the children who are bullied tend to be the other end of the spectrum.

To be fair both ends of the spectrum are bullied. But the genuine high ability kids are ostracised a lot round here.

If you are talking about kids who need extra tutoring to get 9s then they are not gifted.

Its not really about getting 9's though is it? At age 14 my dd had Level 3 qualifications in her specialism. At age 16 she is taking a Level 6 course. It's about them having the opportunity to develop rather than give up as many do and often becoming very unhappy.

In school its about getting the best grades you can. Thats what the school has funding to do. Anything else is great, but not essential imo

Then if the school has extra funding it should be going into the library fund!

“But the genuine high ability kids are ostracised a lot round here.“

Do you have a lot of high ability kids? What do you mean by ostracised?

Why would you give up and become unhappy? Yes its not nice having the piss taken out of you becuase you are clever, I've been there. But its 50 x worse having the piss taken out of you because you are bottom of the class and dont understand anything and that's where extra resources should go.

DD1 was on the Gifted and Talented list at primary school and goes to a superselective grammar school. She did have tutoring to get through the Kent Test and only just got the mark required for the school.

She is absolutely flying at school though and gets 8s and 9s for assessments in Y9. Without additional tutoring. It's absolute nonsense to say kids struggle at grammar school if they are tutored to get in.

There is one very high ability child at ds's school. He is a social outcast.

We know through various sources the odd "child genius" for want of a better word.

Dh is a teacher and has come across a few in his career.

In school its about getting the best grades you can. Thats what the school has funding to do. Anything else is great, but not essential imo

Many schools round here are just focussed on getting the bare minimum grades. So anything above a grade 6/7 isn't really pushed and really its the 4/5's that count. progress 8 has improved things slightly, but not much.

Top sets are those expected to achieve a 6 and above.

@BertrandRussell “If they’re that bright they’ll get the grades.”

Not if they’ve dropped out or are suffering mental health issues due to having to deal with totally inappropriate levels of work for years.

Yes some kids can coast. I would argue that those children who find everything easy and never learn how to fail, will have to deal with the consequences of that later. I had to learn (with great difficulty) how to apply myself at university, and have had to overcome crippling perfectionism because through all the years of school I wasn’t really challenged.

Sorry this is a topic quite close to my heart, as my extended family is full of super bright (and bright and quirky) individuals, some of whom have not been able to survive the school system. Some can. My pretty genius brother had an amazingly supportive teacher who extended him in class (pretty much single handedly, preparing resources in her own time.) He went to Oxford, got a top first and after a chemistry PhD is in the process of designing more efficient solar panels and basically doing amazing things.

Our first cousin on the other hand was a very similar kid, in fact presented as even brighter as a child, but wasn’t supported in the existing school system, started to act out and cause problems at school (mostly due to boredom), flunked his exams, and is now very sadly struggling with the drug addiction he picked up in his teens. Now I don’t know if his mental issues (anxiety and depression) are cause or effect, but I do know that a standard school wasn’t set up for a child like him. This isn’t elitism (we don’t come from a privileged background), and it’s not as simple as ‘they’re clever, they’ll be fine’. I’d argue that extreme giftedness IS neurodiversity by defintion and just as worthy of support as other kinds of neurological difference.

“So anything above a grade 6/7 isn't really pushed and really its the 4/5's that count”
Good luck to them next time OFSTED come a’calling!

But its 50 x worse having the piss taken out of you because you are bottom of the class and dont understand anything and that's where extra resources should go.

I have to say we have never experienced this. Ds has some pretty bright friends but they have never taken the piss out of him in English. The very bottoms children are taught in a separate unit for most lessons and they seem a very supportive bunch.

“So anything above a grade 6/7 isn't really pushed and really its the 4/5's that count”
Good luck to them next time OFSTED come a’calling!

Well it took 6 years of failed inspections but last year they did finally remove our local school from its Academy Trust.

Our first cousin on the other hand was a very similar kid, in fact presented as even brighter as a child, but wasn’t supported in the existing school system, started to act out and cause problems at school (mostly due to boredom), flunked his exams, and is now very sadly struggling with the drug addiction he picked up in his teens. Now I don’t know if his mental issues (anxiety and depression) are cause or effect, but I do know that a standard school wasn’t set up for a child like him. This isn’t elitism (we don’t come from a privileged background), and it’s not as simple as ‘they’re clever, they’ll be fine’. I’d argue that extreme giftedness IS neurodiversity by defintion and just as worthy of support as other kinds of neurological difference.*

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