The Glass Ceiling - part 3

[WoodHeaven]

This is a continuation of the first two threads.
Please free to join us as we discussed challenges faced by our dcs (and how to kake the best of the giftiness)

Previous thread The glass celining - part 2

Interested to read the discussion about mental health and selective education. Of course it's anecdotal but it does seem to be fairly well established that there is a link between academic performance, academic pressure, and mental health (not just in the UK).

My 14yo DD has suffered from some mental health issues in the last two years. Not directly linked to a pressurised school environment, since she was until this year in a deprived (but decent) comprehensive, but she was increasingly setting herself very high standards (of the unhelpful "less than 100% isn't good enough" variety; she scored 354 out of 360 marks in her French school leaving diploma, when 290 would have been enough to get the top grade, and she spent a lot of time pointlessly worrying that she was not going to do "well enough").

Her mental health worsened this year when she started senior high school. My impression is that the larger the place that school takes in her life, the less good this is for her mental health. She needs downtime and creative outlets. Since Christmas we've made some changes (taken her out of weekly boarding and kept her off school sometimes), and she's improved, but french high school probably has a fair bit in common with a selective UK school in terms of the emphasis on marks and results, and we are still struggling to get her to understand that literally no one except her cares if she doesn't get over 95% in every test :(

from my narrow perspective it suggests they might be selecting for that kind of child more than making them

This is a good point!

Your poor daughter, Mistigri. It sounds like she is being very hard on herself.

I think as a general rule, the pressures on good students are greater than they have ever been - and if you then throw a slightly "toxic" school atmosphere into the mix it's easy to see that this could result in an epidemic of stress-related mental illness like the one described by teacher on the previous page.

(I don't think my DD's school is toxic btw; the staff are supportive and there is nothing at stake for her this year.)

Of course it is also true that poor schools can make students ill. A friend's daughter (in the UK) was homeschooled for GCSE because the bullying of able students in her comprehensive made it impossible for her to remain there (both comps within reach were RI, couldn't afford private). She's in sixth form college now, and doing well.

Oh I have to share with the latest with dc1 secondary....
So dc1 comes back home and told us what he did today.

So, I was doing some coding and I've now just one step to finish the whole level 6. I have one bit missing but my teacher couldn't help me solve that last bit. He just didn't know.
After that, there is nothing else to do . It stsops at level 6. Everyone else, bar one or two, is still on the level 5 stuff.

Now I'm wondering, what are they going to do to 'extend and deepen' his mastery of coding?

But... I've learnt that he quites like coding so I might gently push him in that direction.

I am at your DD's brevet score, Mistigri. That is really quite something. Very impressive.

re pressured environment, I think it's not just the school that makes the difference. What happens at home plays a big part on children react. I think it's not always obvious. But just regularly asking about marks and how did the other ones do etc... can be enough.
Or talking about how x and y did so well when they went to xx University and subconscioulsy giving the feeling to the child that you expet them to do the same.

A really badly pressurized environment doesn't affect just your MH though. It affected my physical health too, not the least by setting everything up for me to push myself all the time and to not accept anything else less than the best.
I now have ME, which I truly believe is coming from a deep burn out and overdoing things...
Now of course, other people will be coping very well in that sort of environemt. It's just that if you have someone who is 'weaker' for a better word, the strain is such that they are more likely to 'break down' (emotionally or physically)

Pressure that overwhelms usually comes from a combination of sources and the ability or otherwise to resist it varies wildly from one individual to another.

I wonder if the fact some students put such a lot of pressure on themselves could also be partly down to lack of real challenge. If your average score is 80% then you have something to aspire to. You can drop a few points somewhere and make it up by an good answer elsewhere. If your average is 99+% then there's nowhere to go but down.

(Though I was amused to get 103% on an exam once. Maths of course)

Wood, if your DS likes coding, have you tried khan academy?
They have courses on computer programming, and also in partner content like pixer(teaches about coding and maths behind film making, how to make ball bounce like real ball, grass sways with wind etc.), really fun stuff.

Wood, What's level 5 or 6 coding anyway? I didn't know they had levels in coding.
Or is it something totally different from computer programming?

WoodHeaven I agree with you. I don't think the pressure has to be explicit, either - I know that DD felt pressure from teachers last year, because the message that "it's important and you need to work hard and take it seriously" - while mainly aimed at the less studious - actually gets taken most seriously by the most able. The most ridiculous thing, in our situation, is that the 15+ school leaving diploma in France matters not one iota (it's a low bar, almost everyone passes, and you can get onto a high school course without even sitting it).

Anyway, re coding, how old is you DS? I've bought my DS a raspberry pi for his 13th birthday - there are lots of fun projects he can try with it. Hopefully accessible to a teenager working alone as I don't really have the time or the inclination ...

catkind yes that is definitely true, and I think this is a real issue for my DD.

bobo and she lost four points by forgetting to do the easiest question ("réécriture") on the French paper . Remember that 200 of those points are course work though, and the maths paper was easy last year.

Can we talk about bullying?

I am more than slightly annoyed with DM. DS tells me he is being bullied. I don't know why. The boys concerned say its to see if they can get him to react, but that doesn't make sense as he's never been an angry type of person.

Anyway, I tell DM, looking for support, and she says that DS's intelligence and quiet personality is just a dog whistle to some, and he'll just have to get used to it. So just a casual spot of victim blaming then?!

Perhaps that's why var, they're trying to see how much it takes to get him angry. What a mean thing for your DM to say though. Charitably, maybe a different generation thing? I hope you can get the bullying sorted out quickly for him.

I think intelligence, like anything that makes them seem different, can be used as a target by bullying kids. I certainly had that at times. More in the selective private school than the bogstandard comp mind you. The least clever kid in the class suffered too. Maybe an environment that values intelligence a lot can also make it more noticed (and envied?). I hope most schools are better at dealing with it these days though.

Its going to be difficult to get the bullying sorted out. Its been going on since November (as far as DS can remember). He has been trying to deal with it himself and now seems to have decided that he needs help. So, he told me a couple of nights ago but only if I promised first that I would only tell DH and no one else.

(So telling DM was breaking my word). However, if I speak to the school, he'll never trust me again.

Oh var, that sound horrible. I agree with cat, it maybe generation thing.
Sometimes my DM says something that makes me really angry about ds as well.
I hope you can sort it out for your ds soon.

The three boys that are doing it are all bottom set. According to DS's description they are immature, giggly and short / slightly built.

He finds it embarrassing but he can't shake them off.

Bugger, I had posted yesterday but it looks like my post didn't make it.

In short. my issue with IT and coding is that he has arrived at the end of what they are supposed to teach him and there is nothing else after that. I'm waiting to see what they are going to do as no one has been that fast in his class.... (Very few have started the 'level 6' stuff so I assume it will take them up the end of the year to finish).
Of course, I agree level 6 in coding means very little. Just that he is able to do what they expect him to do at most this year by the end of January.

I'll have a look irvine I think dc1 should enjoy that :)

var I think your mum is wrong. No one should have 'to learn to live with it' because they are clever. It's like saying that someone needs to learn to live with it talking about racist comments wo ever challenging the people saying that.
Having said that, does your ds have some strategies to deal with that? I think dc1 has had quite a few comments (linked with the fact he is clever and bicultural) but he also has a 'I don't care' attitude that means children give up quickly iyswim. He was actually the one to 'told me off' last year for being too sensitive to people's reactions when I don't know them (and that's what about comment made about him!).
Whta is the school sayng about that? And how is yur ds feeling about it?

xpost

I think that if he has decided to talk about it now, it's because he feels he needs some help.
If he doesn't want you to go and see the school, could you have a chat with him to try and understand why he is finding that embarrasing and whether he actually has any reason at all to be embarrassed? Sometimes, there is a big issue with fitting in and feeling inadequate because he is doing things differently.

Sometimes just feeling heard is enough though.

I don't think you can sort it without telling school... It is a difficult situation.
My ds is having a bit of trouble with one of a boy at the moment as well, seems like a jealousy is the cause. I think quirky child can easily be a target, but that doesn't mean they should get used to it!

I think either me or DS needs to tell the school or this won't stop.

If I go to the school though, he'll never trust me again, and I don't like to think of him as having difficulty with something in the future and feeling like he has no one he can talk it over with because I've blown his trust. I've been trying to persuade him to let me involve the school but he's determined not to at the moment.

I think you are right about needing to share the burden. He really cheered up after he'd told me and talked it over with me and DH. At the moment, he feels so much better about it, and we've helped him work out a strategy to avoid the boys as much as possible.

It might work and Ds is hopeful. However, I don't think its over and I'd like to go to the school now, as I have recent evidence - they wrote something - but if I leave it another month, then it will seem less relevant IYSWIM. So I have been trying to persuade him without pushing him into claming up again. Its important that he feels his opinion counts, and even that he has the final say, if I am to keep him onside for letting me help him with other teenage dramas.

but DM's dismissive view that he is to blame for being quiet and clever (and all said like she really wasn't interested....!

var sorry I don't have anything different to add that you haven't already thought through yourself. And I agree your dm is wrong. The confidence/ attitude to deal with it yourself is great, but not being that personality type in no way makes your ds responsible for it continuing. Nor should it be something he needs to learn to deal with or accept. It is victim blaming. He isn't the one in the wrong.

DM was treated badly by her (high achieving) family when she was growing up because she wasn't that academically able. It seems to have left a chip on her shoulder, that she took out on me as I was growing up, and now her miserable views are being directed towards her grandson (but he doesn't know as I am standing blocking her way).

Honestly, when does it stop that people get negatively judged for being bright/ not being bright??!

I would say that you should let the school know about it, but also let them know that your DS didn't want to let them know IYSWIM? From a 'school' perspective, it is quite 'normal' for a child not to want a parent to tell the school about bullying, but the school will still want to know IYSWIM?

It may be that they take no action but add this nugget of information to other bits of information that they already have. It may be that they are more vigilant in watching the interaction between these boys and your DS so can 'observe them directly' so that it never has to be known that you told. It may be that it is simply 'logged' so that if at some point in the future your DS does want to openly tell them, the history is already known.

I would telephone or e-mail whoever has senior pastoral responsibility for your DS - year head, house head, probably not form tutor who may be less experienced - and tell them the whole story, but emphasise that you do not want to alienate your son and prevent him from giving more information by being seen to pass the information on. They WILL have encountered this before, and WILL (IME) be sensitive to it.

Var, I'm also sorry about your DS having to go through this. But I'm glad he felt he was able to talk with you when it became too much for him.

I don't have much advice, only thing I can think apart from what you are already doing is maybe practising with some role play the kind of situations that could happen with these boys and the things they have said so he knows the kind of answers he could come up with, that would stop them from bothering him again. What WoodHeaven mentioned (an attitude of I don't care) seems like a good idea if what they want is just to get a reaction from your DS.

Another thing that occurs to me is maybe a sport like karate or similar is usually very good for self-confidence. I don't know if your DS is interested or already doing it, but it might be worth a try.

Keep talking with him, he might eventually decide by himself that it might be a good idea to involve the school after all. I suppose it all depends on how serious the bullying is, I can understand why he wouldn't want the school involved and the boys realising that he exposed them.

Hope things can get sort out soon