The Glass Ceiling - part 3

[WoodHeaven]

This is a continuation of the first two threads.
Please free to join us as we discussed challenges faced by our dcs (and how to kake the best of the giftiness)

Previous thread The glass celining - part 2

[Ambroxide]

I too think you should tell the school. Maybe you can explain to DS that you can't fix it but the school can and it's not right that the boys should get away with this? I am very sorry your mother is being so odd and wrongheaded about it all.

[strawberrybubblegum]

Wood - do you know what the missing step was? I'm a coder (amongst other things) and may be able to point him in the right direction.

I don't know how coding is taught at school, but I can tell you what I'd see as a natural progression in learning. Hope this might help your DS too, Irvine - I was too slow to comment on the thread when you were talking about his coding!

Language choice:
I'd recommend learning either Java or C#. They are 'proper' fully featured, modern, object oriented (OO) languages.

C/C++ are traditional learning languages, but you have to do some heavy lifting yourself, which may hold you back and isn't particularly useful.

I saw your son chose Python, Irvine. That's a perfectly OK choice too, but I wouldn't necessarily choose it as a first language.

JavaScript has absolutely nothing to do with Java, by the way. (The name was pure marketing, chosen because Java was 'The Coolest Thing Ever' at the time) Javascript is a scripting language, often used to provide dynamic behaviour on websites. It's very useful - increasingly so - but not what I'd call a traditional language, and although you can write OO code in it, it isn't natural (but possibly interesting - see (3) below).

So, steps I'd suggest:

1. Understand all the basic constructs in the language of your choice eg variables, if/else and other conditionals (tertiary operators, case statements), different types of loops, classes, methods. (Added extra: Bitwise operators are fun to play with, especially when combined with set based results, like you get from SQL, but I'd see them as fun rather than necessary). Get lots of practice at solving different problems with these so that it becomes a natural way of thinking
   

1. The wider basics:
   

a)Look at different algorithms for solving classic problems like sorting and string matching. It's a good learning experience to see different ways of doing things.

b) data structures like lists, hashmaps, b-tree. Some of these you get for free in modern languages, but it's still useful to know what you'd use them for.

c) languages/conventions used for passing data around, eg XML, JSON, the concepts behind webservices including REST (probably wouldn't bother with SOAP, apart from knowing what it is)

1. Object Orientation. This is both fun (think the equivalent of pure maths for coding) and very relevant commercially.
   

By the way, Irvine - since your DS likes JavaScript, learning how to do OO (classes, class methods, inheritance) in JavaScript would be a useful exercise for him - but I'd definitely learn it in a traditional language first.

1. Design patterns - these are 'best practice' ways of doing things. They basically boil down to good OO design, but it's subtle and you can learn a lot about both how and why by studying them.
   

this is a very readable introduction to some important design patterns.

The gang of four book is the seminal text, but rather heavy going for a child! Most of these have been written up in different ways on the web, so I'd probably start there: google for particular pattern names, or else just for 'design patterns' .

1. Learn SQL. This is the set-based language used for querying databases. It's a totally different way of thinking (fun for the technical/mathematically minded) and very useful. Almost all commercial systems still use databases.
   

1. Learn how to use an automated testing framework (eg JUnit for java or NUnit for .Net). Learning what you need to do to make your code testable will make you a much better coder, as well as being a genuinely useful skill (both commercially and just for trying things out yourself)
   

There are plenty of other areas to explore after that, eg Web design (html and css), NoSql databases, functional programming, cloud programming (eg Azure), concurrent programming, operating systems, and a plethora of other languages, tools and techniques.

One of the joys of technology is that you are entering a lifetime of learning.

Caveat:
Now, I haven't made any allowances for this being aimed at kids: this is what I'd recommend to an adult who wanted to go into this field too. It's also probably a good few years of study

But I don't think any of this is intrinsically HARD. And they can always stop and move onto another area if they don't like something - these aren't sequential (apart from the language basics, and OO being needed for design patterns).

The really hard bit is using all these tools to solve problems - which is a wonderful life-long adventure!

[strawberrybubblegum]

Sorry, that was huge - should have pm-ed it

Hope the rest of you just scrolled over!

[user789653241]

Thank you strawberrybubblegum for great advice.

My ds also learned Java on codeacademy.(Just basics.) So we know it's different from javascript. He is only 8, so he is still into making stuff related to his favourite games etc. javascript on khan is perfect for drawing cool animation with text and make it into a strategy book he is making at the moment.
He learned SQL, and loves it too. During summer holiday, he made a list of plant species near the cottage with all the details.
He does HTML and CSS as well, with js and jQuery. He makes his blog pages.(Not real, for himself and us to read.)
He learned all this on khan, and still keen to go back and do more.
Some of stuff are a bit complicated for 8 year old, but he is determined to finish all the courses some day.

I found courses for C# and JAVA, but ds seems perfectly happy with javascript and others he knows for now, so I'm keeping the link till later when he is older and shows interest.

And I will copy and paste your post on the notebook, so I can comeback to read it again.

Thank you for your great help.

[user789653241]

And those who were concerned my ds was obsessed with maths and computer(thank you, noble), he finally shown interest in something else,
piano!
So, he will start lessons and hopefully, he won't spend too much time on computer anymore.

[Mistigri]

On the subject of coding, it's DS's 13th today and I bought him a raspberry pi and a big book to get him started (since I know literally nothing about it).

Comes with scratch (for littlies) and Python. DS has done some small projects in C++ but is new to Python. We'll see how he gets on with it - no coding clubs here unfortunately but he's a self-starter anyway, he tends to get frustrated in group situations if it doesn't go fast enough. Might try to find him a coding summer camp if he gets into it.

[PiqueABoo]

When the school ICT->Computing shift started a few years ago the consensus seemed favour of Python for introducing programming to the masses. Whether it's the best one for that is debatable, but pragmatically it probably is because there are lots of resources etc.

"Object Orientation."

I think OOP is much like progressive eduction i.e. dogmatic 'silver bullets' that missed their targets and have been endlessly patched ever since. Just one more innovative push will finally prove that they were right all along. Repeat forever because careers and other investments depend on it etc.

"he finally shown interest in something else, piano!"

All the best DC do that

[user789653241]

Thank you, Pique.
He became fan of amateur you tube pianist(uni student), who plays game music, as well as original.
Hopefully he doesn't give up easily, and learn to be resilient.

[PiqueABoo]

"who plays game music"

Have you seen the awesome Sonya Belousova do that? Lots of great videos here including instant live variations of old arcade game music: www.youtube.com/user/playerpianovideos

[user789653241]

Thank you pique! He loves star wars too, so I'm sure he will love it.

[PiqueABoo]

The make-up/effects are quite good so you should check the Walking Dead one for suitability first, otherwise I think they were all harmless.

Watching Sonya's 'on the spot' improvisation videos with DD there was a lot of "How does she do that? I mean HOW!?". I was slightly nervous about doing that in case she decided she'd never be that good, so give up.

According to her mother, one girl in the same class as DD did give up piano because she "knew she'd never be as good as [my DD]". Which was sad because DD had started earlier and I thought that girl was progressing very well.

[user789653241]

I think my ds is not mature enough to realise there are things he can't achieve yet. So hopefully, watching great things motivates him rather than give up. We don't even have piano/ keyboard yet, so it's only the beginning.

[WoodHeaven]

Thank you so much strawberry
All very useful information :)

irvine that's great that your ds is looking at other things. This is certainly something that I have tried to encourage in both dcs. Of course, they both have their own abilities and areas they are good at. But I would hate they are restricting their world to just that iyswim?

[user789653241]

Good evening! I know it's completely irrelevant to this thread(sorry!), but I need some advice on choosing keyboard for my ds. I have asked the same question on primary, but since a lot of mums here have DCs with musical talent, can I ask here as well?

We are thinking about buying YAMAHA piaggero np32, npv60, or npv80.
My ds is starting piano from 0, and I have no knowledge about anything music. Are these good? Is there massive difference between these models?
TIA

[var123]

I'm not one of the musical mums, so I definitely can't help you irvine101. However, if none of the others can answer either, you could try posting your question here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/extra_curricular_activities

It seems to get a bit of traffic

[var123]

Just a short update about the bullying. It was happening in two classes where DS was seated next to the bully. I told the school (with DS1's agreement).

One teacher said they'd monitor it - and consequently the boy has done nothing as he is obviously being watched (and snapped up to get on with his work etc).

The other teacher just moved DS along one desk with the excuse to the class that she wanted to have fewer boys sitting together.

However, the real solution came from DS2. He overheard us talking about it and handed DS1 some lines to say that would have the rest of the class laughing at the boy when he tries to kick etc. If I were the boy, i'd just choose to leave DS1 alone and find another victim. Whether DS1 needs to use them or not is almost not the point, the point is that he is now confident that he can handle it.

[Ambroxide]

If it was me, irvine, I would spend a bit more and get a keyboard with weighted keys. This probably adds quite a bit to the cost but it does make a difference to the feel and will be much more like playing a real piano.

[Ambroxide]

Also, var, that sounds very positive. Glad to hear your DS is feeling more confident.

[user789653241]

Thank you var.
I' m glad to hear your ds got a confidence to handle the situation!
I hope it gets better soon.

Thank you Ambroxide. But it was bit too late, We already ordered NPV 80 in the end!( Well my dh did, since ds was constantly pressurizing him to buy soon.) Anyways, spending £300+ was quite a stretch for something uncertain... Hopefully he will continue learning and make us worry about getting a better one next.

[WoodHeaven]

var It's lovely to see that your ds is feeling more confident.

I don't know if you have seen a couple of threads recently about secondary school teachers who have snapped and left the class due to the mayhem there. If you look at the last one, there are some terrifying descriptions of what happens in class which also match with ds1 description of what happens in class.

It made me wonder. Yes we want the best for our dcs, we want differenciation, deepening etc.. But in these circumstances, is that even possible?

[Ellle]

Thanks for the update Var. I'm glad your DS1 is feeling more confident now and that he also agreed to let you speak to the school about what was going on.

It made me smile when you said the real solution came from DS2. It's nice to see how his brother is also there for him, and as they are similar in age I'm sure he knows the best things to say to stop the bully in his tracks.

[var123]

I had lunch with a (primary school) teacher friend last week. She was telling me how hard teaching has become in the last five years.

She said that every single person she ever met at teaching college or has worked with in the last 20 years, went into teaching because they want to teach children. However, the job has become less and less about classroom time, to the extent that actual teaching time is now an insignificant part of the job, with the main part being mountains of paperwork that only Ofsted might ever read should it decide to visit and sample the record keeping.

She said what teachers on here have said: teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

I firmly believe that the Tory party wants an educated population. So, what she is describing seems counter-productive. Then it occurred to me, could all this just be a stick to drive schools to leave LEA control?

[Lurkedforever1]

var glad he's feeling more confident. And if he does need to use ds2's one liners, then that should finish it, far more efficiently than any other response he could give

[Mominatrix]

An interesting article for all those with children who feel they are being stifled by traditional maths education (although it is taking place in the US)

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/03/the-math-revolution/426855/

[Ambroxide]

Very interesting! That Russian School thing sounds lovely. I think it is a bit like (but more advanced) what DD has had this term from the secondary school teacher who comes in when they have to talk about their strategies and logical processes and work out what they are actually thinking as they try to solve a problem. She has absolutely loved it. I have not seen her so enthused about Maths at school for the past three years.