The glass ceiling for very able children

[var123]

Has anyone else encountered the sense that the school is merely paying lip service to the ideals that they will challenge all children and work to bring all the children in the class to their potential?

I bumped along it a couple of days ago in a face to face conversation with one of the teacher's at my children's secondary.

He was full of buzzwords (like resilience and challenge) but there was a complete vacuum when it came to detail about how he planned to achieve that wrt to my children. In fact, he kept lapsing into telling me how my DC might help the others "by inspiring the less able".

Honestly, has there ever been a human being born into this world, who feels inspired to keep ploughing away at something due to being in the presence of someone who learned to do it without breaking stride?? People who struggle and then succeed are the inspiring ones because they make you feel like if you can do it, then maybe you can too. The ones who always find it easy and are just waiting for you to catch up so they can move on are just disheartening to contemplate.

Badders123 - that's great. It sounds like your DC is doing well and the school is challenging him.

What will you think if and when he continues to move ahead and the school just leaves him unchallenged for months or years?

I'm with catkind (first page). I cannot get them to move Ds (yr2) up reading levels even though they've assessed his reading and agree he's not finding it challenging. Yet those with parents that are teachers seem to have no trouble jumping reading levels. We're spending £££ on books at home for him to read.

Purple. Ask exactly what he has to demonstrate to be moved up a level. And don't go until you know. Then make sure he can demonstrate whatever it is- some children perform differently at school than at home.
But don't worry about reading levels. You'd be spending on books anyway- that's what happens if you have a reading child. Don't forget the library and charity shops.

PurpleThermalsNowItsWinter I had the same problem a few years ago with DS2 when he was in Y2.

I was finding that the assessments for the more able readers were more infrequent than for the less able readers (i helped in class so I could see for myself exactly who got assessed weekly, bi-weekly and monthly). There was a reluctance to move the more able readers on because it made the class harder to manage and made the weaker readers feel insecure.
It was the same (but much worse) with setting new maths targets. Ds would find himself stuck on a target for ages because the TA was assessing him very infrequently.

I had to keep asking (nagging) to get it done.

I thought this was just an infants things or a bad school (note that they had parent volunteers in their own DC's classroom), but after I changed school and volunteered again, I found out that this is just what happens.

" There was a reluctance to move the more able readers on because it made the class harder to manage and made the weaker readers feel insecure."

I really think that's unlikely to have been the reason. I suspect it's much more likely to have been that the weaker readers got more input because they needed it, and the stronger ones could read, so genuinely didn't need as much input. One of mine was a very early reader, so just read. They didn't need to be assessed or heard- because they could read.

Maths is obviously different, because you don't reach a point where you can "do maths". But with reading, once you can read you can just get on with it.

Its true that the weaker readers got more input, but that was a different process and it happened every day.

The thing I am describing was the frequency of the assessments that the HLTA did with her folder open in front of her and she'd tick off things as she saw them occur. If the child did something on three separate occasions then they'd be deemed to know it and would be moved up a sub-sub level.

The HLTA would only see a handful of children each time she did these assessments and the better the reader you were, the less often she'd assess you.

I got on well with one of the teachers and I asked her why this was. She was the one who gave me the explanation that I quoted. It wasn't my imagination of fitting a story to the facts.

But my point is, if you can read, why does it matter how often you're assessed? I stress, I am talking about reading- which is a skill like riding a bike. Once you can do it you don't need anyone holding you up- you just ride and get better with practice.

Well then, she was absolutely wrong and I hope you told the Head.

There;s different parts to being able to reading, as you know. You might be able to read a whole infant book with 10 words to a page, but can you read and understand a whole Harry Potter book? Can you make inferences about the effect the author is creating by his choice of words? etc etc

No, of course I didn't tell the HT! This was the fourth teacher I'd seen do this across two different schools. Its annoying but its normal practice IME

So you have had 4 separate teachers telling you they hold able pupils back because they made weaker readers feel insecure? Well I have to believe it because you've told me- but I find that extraordinary. And yes of course you should have told the Head. She won't know her staff are spouting bullshit unless people tell her!

I found it much easier in primary in retrospect, whether they were or not at the right reading level didn't make a big difference. We just read at home (me to then A LOT) and then when they could. As soon as they could read stuff that they enjoyed (ie the reading abilities reached their ability in understanding), they started to read for themselves a lot.
Same with maths. There are so many ways you can incorporate some maths in everyday life.
Secondary is different IMO.

Bertrand could you tell me what are these activities that your dcs do that aren't competitive?
I had to smile at your comment 'this club is badly run. Change it.' This is the same than school. It depends why you have available around you. And compare to what is available, I'm happy to chose that club (compare to the other two ubber competitive, non friendly clubs. They are also further away, the dcs need me to drive then there compare to just popping up fur a game etc...)

Why not just pay fees at a very academic school? I really don't think ever at North London Collegiate juniors my daughter was not academically challenged.

No I have 4 separate teachers asking me to do reading with the children in their class, and usually adding that I should do the ones at the front of the folder first.

Then, because its hard to do many, many hours like this without noticing that as you progress towards the children at the back of the folder/ bottom of the list, the reading ability generally improves to the point that when you do read with the last few, you are struck by how incredibly well they can read relative to the first half dozen.

Then you notice that the HLTA is assessing the progress of the DC at the front of the folder more often than the ones at the back. In fact you notice, that she seems to do assess the children in small batches each day (2 or 3 children at a time) however she does this several times a week. Then you notice that at the end of each month, the HLTA makes an effort to make sure that all the children have been assessed in this calendar month and so for the first time this month, she's seeing the ones at the back of the folder. As I am also making notes in the folder - but in my case only that the child was heard, the date and the initials - it becomes impossible not to notice that the children at the front are assessed weekly and the ones at the back are down to monthly.

Then after 5 years of this (long after my DC have moved on into KS2), I idly ask a teacher why one day and she tells me.

DeoGratias - I explained why upthread, but even if I hadn't you surely could've answered this question yourself

People don't just pay the fees because either
a) they can't afford to (this is my reason)
b) they don't want to (e.g. for moral/ social reasons)
c) there aren't any suitable schools within reasonable travelling distance (e.g. if they live in the Outer Hebrides)

Oh, shut up, DeoGratias.

Don't engage with her, people- she's a wind up merchant.

I have certainly had multiple teachers complain about ds "reading ahead" in the textbook. He's even had several times the comment "reads too much" in his report card. Bertrand the problem is that in an ideal world the solutions you suggest would work, but unfortunately our world is far from ideal. Yes, it's a poorly run extra curricular activity that behaves as described above, but unfortunately many are poorly run and the energy involved in finding a well run one is sometimes just too much on top of trying to find good teachers and keeping your children engaged AND in my case trying to manage serious medical and mental health issues.

There's no need to spend any money on reading books to read with a g&t child at home. Just go to the library.

Lower achievers may get more time with the HLTA but they get less time with the teacher. Who would you rather your child is taught by?

Var...like most people, I'm afraid private school is out of our reach financially.
However, should what you describe happen, I would try to ensure they were getting extra curricular enhancement, encouragement from us and activities at home/online and time to explore their other interests.
I'm sure that's what most parents would do?

Rose...our village library closed last year.
Please bear in mind not everyone lives in the SE or places with good public transport!

I think you are talking about reading versus comprehension?
Very different skills, yes.

Oh that's crap badders. Bloody big society.