The glass ceiling for very able children

[var123]

Has anyone else encountered the sense that the school is merely paying lip service to the ideals that they will challenge all children and work to bring all the children in the class to their potential?

I bumped along it a couple of days ago in a face to face conversation with one of the teacher's at my children's secondary.

He was full of buzzwords (like resilience and challenge) but there was a complete vacuum when it came to detail about how he planned to achieve that wrt to my children. In fact, he kept lapsing into telling me how my DC might help the others "by inspiring the less able".

Honestly, has there ever been a human being born into this world, who feels inspired to keep ploughing away at something due to being in the presence of someone who learned to do it without breaking stride?? People who struggle and then succeed are the inspiring ones because they make you feel like if you can do it, then maybe you can too. The ones who always find it easy and are just waiting for you to catch up so they can move on are just disheartening to contemplate.

And I am sad var that your class teacher isn't supporting your dc. I was terrible at PE and hated it - am sure I would be diagnosed dyspraxic these days, if I went for assessment - so the children who struggle with PE always get support from me.

Or both factors apply?

I don't think it needs to be that decision teacher. The most able don't need the same effort/ teacher time. But there will be well supported lower/ middle achievers taking teacher time away from their unsupported and/or in poverty peers. And reducing the teachers time far more than just handing some work to an able child. Especially an able child that doesn't have anyone but the teacher to help them

Iora what do you do with the children who are gifted but have switch off from beredom and lash out? Are you also spending more time with them because of their behaviour issues?

The problem is that it's not because a child is gifted that they do well. They can also be the disruptive child or the silent one that gets nowhere and keeps daydreaming.
For me, the time when you have a child that is gifted but has either become disruptive or has disengaged so much they don't do anything, that's when the school have truly failed them.
And that's what I'm worried for my dcs (not the lashing out but the disengaging so much that they stop learning, only to be told that if they were pulling their socks up, they would be OK)

I'm not sure I understand this argument. People are arguing in favour of mixed ability teaching to remind the teacher that there are different abilities within the group and so to differentiate? Which they might forget to do if they have top set and don't realise that some top-setters are better than others? Is that right?

Surely in that case what would happen is that the teacher would differentiate in the mixed ability class for the top, middle and bottom, the bright kids would be given the same work that the top set would get, and the outlier would end up doing the same work as the rest of the bright kids anyway? It's not like the mixed ability teacher has the time to hand-craft individualised worksheets.

I teach a couple of top sets, btw, and I'm perfectly aware of the ability range within the group. We do test them, have CATs scores for them and so on. And I don't teach with my eyes closed.

My more able kids have differentiated work so they are challenged Wood. So the MC able kids are all fine, they work happily. If they finish their work while I am conferencing with others, they have extension tasks to do - mental maths puzzles and problem solving is a favourite with my highers. Often I explain a task I want them to do during snack time before yard.

Also in my class I do have able children who for various reasons haven't been in school enough to grasp the basics. So they slot in with my lower ability kids for conferencing sessions, as I can't set them word problems they can't read, nor can I have them doing long multiplication when they can just about add.
However they are challenged within the groups, so higher order questions or might be asked to demo how to solve a problem on the board, and then do independent work much quicker than the others in that grouping do.

We are about to hit 1000 posts. Is it worth starting a new thread? Any name suggestions?

How about support thread for parents of G&T , or would that be too vague?
I started one for boarders and was quite surprised it didn't turn nasty

lurked - it's not 'a' utopia, still less 'mine'. I've pointed that out a couple of times now, and you continuing to use the term seems... less than entirely respectful.

You were fine with what your child had when it was fine for her. Now you have something that's better for your child... and unsurprisingly, you feel even better about that. I haven't heard much from you about all the kids who have no choice but to attend the schools you wouldn't contemplate for your own daughter. I guess perhaps this isn't the thread for that.

I'm not unaware that I am in a similar position, in that through mere luck, I have ended up with a situation for my children that I feel is not only ideal for them, but also happens to fit my personal view of education more generally. Unsurprisingly... I'm fine with it. But I would say that what I'm fine with in reality would translate really easily across the whole state system. I'm unsure what you're suggesting for anyone but the most.... well, able.

OP, how about 'Ready? Sets? Go!'

multi I could fill a thread myself ranting about the unfairness of the other kids left behind at one of the schools, and all the awful practices it has. And as I said the other has a nice atmosphere and plenty of good practices. But it's just no use with kids at the easy c and above level, or for any child interested in academic subjects.

Possibly why I still get het up about the subject despite being safe myself.

'Ready? Sets! Go!' is genius

Var, I used to be an expat child and an expat myself, but not anymore. I decided to settle down in England, so no choice of going somewhere else.
(I'm not sure what expat is, assume foreign national working abroad for few years, sent by some company or organization.)

WoodHeaven, thank you for your comment. I totally agree that I shouldn't show my disappointment about school to my ds. I really appreciate that advice.

I think of "expat" as someone who lives in a foreign country for a long time, but not permanently. They might work for themselves, for a company that asked them to move there or even just be retired. In their minds, they still belong to the country that they were born or grew up in.

e.g. when I lived abroad, I knew quickly that I might stay for a few years, but Britain was home so I was an expat, not an immigrant.

There was no distinction in my mind when I moved abroad, but when you've been told to "go home" many times, and been treated to the delights of the visa office, then it does bring it into sharp relief.

Anyway, I only asked because it might have meant that you wouldn't have to worry about the local secondary as you might not even have been living there.

I have a question for the teachers on this thread, if that's ok?

Some of your responses seem to indicate that its your choice which sections of the class you focus on. Is that correct: teachers have the authority to set their own priorities?

If so, then it seems fair that in a single form entry primary school, the G&T policy should say in which years G&T children will be low priority.

.

the new thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gifted_and_talented/2556317-That-glass-ceiling-Part-2?

I won't be around much today but if anyone has some spare time, it would be great to hear your views.

*'m not too concerned tbh. I think if you treat school as a place they can make friends, fun topics, sports and craft. Then you can just let them do the other stuff at home."

Yep. Fine for those with that sort of support at home.........*

That's everyone on mumsnet