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Gifted and talented

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Original poster

The glass ceiling for very able children

994 replies

var123 · 12/11/2015 15:22

Has anyone else encountered the sense that the school is merely paying lip service to the ideals that they will challenge all children and work to bring all the children in the class to their potential?

I bumped along it a couple of days ago in a face to face conversation with one of the teacher's at my children's secondary.

He was full of buzzwords (like resilience and challenge) but there was a complete vacuum when it came to detail about how he planned to achieve that wrt to my children. In fact, he kept lapsing into telling me how my DC might help the others "by inspiring the less able".

Honestly, has there ever been a human being born into this world, who feels inspired to keep ploughing away at something due to being in the presence of someone who learned to do it without breaking stride?? People who struggle and then succeed are the inspiring ones because they make you feel like if you can do it, then maybe you can too. The ones who always find it easy and are just waiting for you to catch up so they can move on are just disheartening to contemplate.

OP posts:
Original poster
var123 · 16/01/2016 12:58

PiqueABoo - i think I understand what you are saying, PiqueABoo. Is it that someone coming from a equally disadvantaged or even more disadvantaged position than most and succeeding in a very unambiguous way inspires the others to feel that anything is impossible if they only strive hard enough?

Its quite an American attitude, so obviously there is a large swathe of human beings who respond positively in this way. Unfortunately, the British can be a little more inclined to scratch the car of the person who is doing well! It really just depends on your personality, but let's face it, there are a lot of people who simply resent success in others unless they are doing better.

OP posts:
Original poster
var123 · 16/01/2016 13:01

and then there's a few who would manage to climb upwards and then pull up the ladder behind them.

People aren't always nice.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 13:54

"bert thats great that from the many advantages your dc have, you're happy to give away a grade. But you seem to be ignoring the fact that not every able child has all those other advantages. Agreed. But we were, I though, talking about A students? Getting As is a real door opener And that not every lower achiever is disadvantaged in other ways. Agreed. But getting Ds is a real door closer

You also fail to understand it isn't really about the end grade. Its about able children not becoming disaffected with education, never learning to try in school, never taking their education further than school because a love of learning has turned into boredom. at a risk of making myself even more unpopular, I would say that if my able (but not super able) children tried that one, I would point out in no uncertain terms that they have been dealt a fantastic hand in the game of life, that they should take what they can from school (there's a lot more going on than academic stuff) and remember that the school day is only 6 hours long and they another 8 hours every day to do their own thing

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 13:59

Because there are times when it's tough to be bright. But it's bloody sight tougher not being bright

Bolognese · 16/01/2016 14:16

I have never suggested giving up 'other' kids advantages. I am also not advocating gifted children should be given 'any' extra support.

I AM saying gifted children are a neglected group and a cost neutral solution would be to allow a free to open catering for them. This would greatly benefit the country.

multivac · 16/01/2016 16:53

Where should we put it?

Lurkedforever1 · 16/01/2016 16:57

Exactly bert you'd encourage your kids anyway, because they have the other advantage of a supportive parent. Not every able child also has that advantage.

You could also reverse that statement and say that the d/c childrens parents could make up the deficit. I'm not sure why there is always the assumption able children have supportive parents, and yet for low achievers education is the only positive they have.

It's not even as though the burden of the ultimately deprived is split evenly between all able children. Its the able children in the most deprived schools that pay the highest price.

You don't like the grammar system because children think they've been written off educationally at 11 years old, but don't seem to recognise the hypocrisy when you have no problem with an able child being written off by the education system. Using your logic, the 11+ system shouldn't have any drawbacks, after all those who fail can be encouraged by parents, just like you think the able should be in a comprehensive system.

All kids deserve to have their potential met by the state system. And I fail to see why if that's not logistically possible, it's acceptable to say academic ability should be the only area that sucks up the flack.

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 17:09

"All kids deserve to have their potential met by the state system. And I fail to see why if that's not logistically possible, it's acceptable to say academic ability should be the only area that sucks up the flack."

Of course they deserve it. But it can't happen until there is more money in the system.

Do you think the most able are the ones who should get priority?

Lurkedforever1 · 16/01/2016 17:25

Yes it can happen, doesn't need to be costly. But even using your logic that something has to give, again why just the able? Why not backseat all kids with an advantage?

Nowhere have I said the able should have priority. Just equal treatment. Tbh I'd accept the lowest achievers, from fsm homes with questionable parenting having priority, with everyone else treated the same. But that isn't what you're supporting.

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 17:32

OK.

Do you accept that the difference between an A and an A* makes much less difference to a person's life chances than the difference between a D and a C?

NewLife4Me · 16/01/2016 17:39

For some children it doesn't matter if they get an A* or a D.
Lets throw that one around a bit Grin

You could get all D's not be academic at all but attend college/uni on a vocational course without any GCSE's it really doesn't matter unless you have a specific job/career in mind that necessitates A*s

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 17:41

Not having Cs in English and Maths slams a lot of doors shut.

Lurkedforever1 · 16/01/2016 17:43

Depends on every other advantage the kids may or may not have, and where they go/ aim to go after that.

user789653241 · 16/01/2016 17:45

I was reading other thread and number of A* seems to matter if they want to go to certain area?

rosebiggs · 16/01/2016 17:46

Young people who don't have a C in English and Maths have very little choice with regard to college courses, apprenticeships and employment options.

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 17:56

"Depends on every other advantage the kids may or may not have, and where they go/ aim to go after that."

No it doesn't. No C in English and Maths means an incredibly limited range of post 16 options. No A* in English and Maths? Not so much.

Out2pasture · 16/01/2016 18:42

Here in Canada upgrading can happen any time in a multitude of ways, even our best universities takes mature students who have upgraded. Is this not available in the UK?

multivac · 16/01/2016 18:50

out - can you explain what you mean by 'upgrading'? I don't think it's a 'thing' in the UK...

Lurkedforever1 · 16/01/2016 18:52

And why is that the only possible choice? Why is is the responsibility of the a* student alone to give up their grades to help their classmate? Why don't parents like you pay for extra support for that child? Whether that be cash and/ or actually tutoring them yourself? Why are you so keen to volunteer other people's kids advantage?

Do you think every able child has supportive parents with disposable income, and every child below the c grade has unsupportive, uneducated parents on the breadline?

Like I said, the a or a* isn't the important issue. But if the human cost of getting their classmates to a c, results in that able child dropping out of education, then that's a high price you're willing to pay with someone elses child, whilst knowing full well your own don't need to give up all their advantages.

Maybe the solution is the 11+ system. The main argument against is that it leaves the secondary modern with few high ability pupils and a sense they've failed. But all it needs is parents like you who don't mind able kids being ignored to deliberately choose them as first preference and that problem will be solved.

Out2pasture · 16/01/2016 18:57

Well here someone who has failed anything can go back at anytime and take a subject over through a variety of different recognized providers. My youngest coasted through high school (grades 8-12) graduated with barely passing grades. Went directly to a college, where he redid certain subjects in grades 10-11-12 and those upgraded marks were then used towards his entrance requiremts into another program.

multivac · 16/01/2016 19:14

sigh

Canada is so damn cool...

Out2pasture · 16/01/2016 19:24

Please reassure me, does the UK not have such a thing? My husband took his MBA at 50. I upgraded from a diploma in nursing to a Bachelors at 30.
There are many paths here to achieving an educational goal. Most universities give priority to "mature" students....which might mean 21

redbinneo · 16/01/2016 19:32

Lurked
The a or a* IS the important issue.
If you want your child to go to a Russel Group university and get a masters.

Out2pasture · 16/01/2016 19:43

Red, do you have to achieve this at age 17? Can you not ever redo and reapply later in life?
Many a talented student can become distracted but become refocused 2 years later?

redbinneo · 16/01/2016 19:57

Out2pasture
Yes you can sort yourself out later, I got my first degree at 40 and my MSc at 50, and had great life before achieving either.