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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

Original poster

The glass ceiling for very able children

994 replies

var123 · 12/11/2015 15:22

Has anyone else encountered the sense that the school is merely paying lip service to the ideals that they will challenge all children and work to bring all the children in the class to their potential?

I bumped along it a couple of days ago in a face to face conversation with one of the teacher's at my children's secondary.

He was full of buzzwords (like resilience and challenge) but there was a complete vacuum when it came to detail about how he planned to achieve that wrt to my children. In fact, he kept lapsing into telling me how my DC might help the others "by inspiring the less able".

Honestly, has there ever been a human being born into this world, who feels inspired to keep ploughing away at something due to being in the presence of someone who learned to do it without breaking stride?? People who struggle and then succeed are the inspiring ones because they make you feel like if you can do it, then maybe you can too. The ones who always find it easy and are just waiting for you to catch up so they can move on are just disheartening to contemplate.

OP posts:
Bolognese · 15/01/2016 22:08

Experienced teachers get paid around 40% more than the average person in the whole United Kingdom. Its definitely a well paid job. And that doesn't even include all the other perks.

BertrandRussell · 15/01/2016 22:13

" The girl who was on track for an A with a target of just a C could have been pushed to an A* with effort from me, but the three boys at G who I could raise to an E were a better use of my time according to the appraisal system."

And, actually, a better use of your time for the individuals concerned.

Leslieknope45 · 15/01/2016 22:20

Well exactly Bertrand!

Lurkedforever1 · 15/01/2016 22:27

You can't possibly know that bertrand. For all we know that girl wanted to do a-levels in that subject, in order to go to university. And now can't. And for all we know the 2 E's have made fuck all difference to the boys.

I get why the current education system puts leslie in the position of choosing. But we shouldn't have an education system that decides that girl has to make that sacrifice for her peers.

Not starting a bun fight bertrand but genuinely interested, do you sacrifice all of your kids advantages to the good of their classmates? Because you always seem to be very generous about sacrificing other childrens advantages to classmates.

Leslieknope45 · 15/01/2016 22:28

Teaching certainly can be a well paid job, the average UK woman earns approx £25k.
I'm not sure what your point is-? I'm not saying it's unfairly paid.

BertrandRussell · 15/01/2016 22:30

"You can't possibly know that bertrand. For all we know that girl wanted to do a-levels in that subject, in order to go to university. And now can't. And for all we know the 2 E's have made fuck all difference to the boys"

What, because she got an A not an A*? Please...........

user789653241 · 15/01/2016 22:38

Bert, I started to wonder if you actually have gifted child or are you a teacher?

Lurkedforever1 · 15/01/2016 22:39

I notice you didn't answer my question bertrand.

BertrandRussell · 15/01/2016 23:08

Sorry, missed it.

Not sure what you mean. If there are pragmatic choices to be made, and there are resources either to get a child, mine or anyone else's, from an A to an A* or another child, mine or anyone else's, from a D to a C, then it seems to me to be a complete no brainer to go for the latter. Is that what you mean?

And no, I'm not a teacher. And I do not have a gifted child. I have a very clever child, but not top 2%.

Bolognese · 15/01/2016 23:15

My only point was in reply to Leslieknope45 who is in debt and implied if
they were in it for the money they would have left. I suggest not.

As has already been said schools are set up for the average pupil and extra money is spent on the ones falling behind. Nothing is done for the gifted children. It wouldn't cost any extra money to allow a school for gifted children to be set up, but its just not PC for intelligent children to be seen to be getting ahead.

Leslieknope45 · 15/01/2016 23:17

I'm not a teacher for the money. I earn 24k and a TLR. It's not massive amounts compared to my peers and I speak 4 languages and have 2 degrees. I don't do the job for the money. I don't think the amount I earn is little, but it isn't a total fortune. I'm a teacher for the children. Not the cash.

BertrandRussell · 15/01/2016 23:18

"but its just not PC for intelligent children to be seen to be getting ahead."

Oh, don't be silly.

Lurkedforever1 · 15/01/2016 23:26

I mean from the view ability is an advantage in life. As is disposable income, supportive parents, etc. And assuming your children do have some advantages, which do you sacrifice? Eg when you're happy to give away that girls a*, do you perhaps also give up your kids holidays/ luxury items to pay for tuition for the kids at the bottom? Or refuse to support one at uni to help someone get a c? Or ignore your own kids to support a child with useless parents? etc etc. Or would you be happy for your child to be taught 7/8 years behind, so basically not gaining anything academically from school, to focus more attention on the worst off?

BertrandRussell · 15/01/2016 23:30

No. I said very clearly what I mean. We are talking about how schools need to operate in times of austerity and government indifference and where their focus needs to be.

Bolognese · 15/01/2016 23:40

No I am sorry BertrandRussell, a lot of effort is put into helping children who are not making expected progress. There is no extra effort put into the countries most gifted children. Your ignorant reply is just that.

PiqueABoo · 15/01/2016 23:52

They operated like that in the times of plenty. More so in fact.

Lurkedforever1 · 15/01/2016 23:57

Generous about offering up other kids advantages aren't you? quite possibly to children who in every other way are already more advantaged than them, it's not only the most deprived who are helped by ignoring the most able. How noble and socially minded of you to keep your children's advantages and donate other kids instead.

Wouldn't ditching efforts for all kids on target for c's, from homes say with national average income and above be better at helping the kids with nothing? After all there is a hell of a lot more of them than there are able kids. If education is going to be about the strive for mediocrity and difficult decisions then let's go the whole hog.

PiqueABoo · 16/01/2016 01:48

::ouch:: I think I've just seen someone drop a nuke on the first president of the CND.

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 07:49

Lurkedforever- I think you must be deliberately misunderstanding me, unless I am hugely less articulate than I think I am. Which is, of course, possible. I'm happy to try and explain what I mean again, but not if you're going to erect another straw army!

user789653241 · 16/01/2016 08:18

Bertrand, so you don't mind your child getting A, not A*, if other child can get E instead of G? You must be a saint.Hmm

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 08:43

No. Not a saint. A pragmatist.

The sort of world my children will grow up in depends on a lot of factors. One of them is what happens to children who don't have the advantages and opportunities that they have. The children for whom school is their only chance

Unless something disastrous happens, my ds will get As and 8s. I would love it if he got A*s and 9s, and I will do everything I can personally to make sure he does. But the school's job is to make sure that a) everyone does as well as possible, and crucially b) as few children as possible leave disaffected and qualificationless. At one stage the school got something like 18% A-C. You can imagine the effect that had on the population of the area. So yes, I would rather another child got a 5 in English than mine got a 9. Yes of course I would grit my teeth, but I believer in the greater good.

Original poster
var123 · 16/01/2016 10:16

TBH it bothers me that you are a school governor, BertrandRussell because it might give you a chance to impose your political views as described.

Did you get elected and did you tell the other parents that you would always seek to deprive anyone who you perceive as being clever?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 10:19

"you get elected and did you tell the other parents that you would always seek to deprive anyone who you perceive as being clever?"

I'd be really grateful if you would cut and paste where I said anything of the sort.

It's really no point having any sort of discussion with people who don't read what the other person's saying, but just make things up.

Original poster
var123 · 16/01/2016 10:30

Its been in everything you've written for the last 24 hours.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 16/01/2016 10:45

No it hasn't. Find me a paragraph where I said that I want to deprive anyone I perceive as clever.

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