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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

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Original poster

I'm having a week of it, I know...but.....(school awards)

107 replies

Basketofchocolate · 23/07/2015 18:28

I find it sad (but I do understand why) that DS comes home with acknowledgement that he is normal (all pupils get a sticker at end of term with one of 3 or 4 bland things on) i.e. he is one of the 3 or 4 things that every other child is. He didn't get a certificate for 100% attendance so that's just it. No recognition for his hard work for his academic achievements. Not even privately from the teachers.

I know he's still young (just finished Yr 1) but was wondering why school don't acknowledge it. He knows he's different and that he struggles in other areas, such as social skills so it seems sensible to praise in areas where he is doing well to help self-esteem.

We have told him we're very proud, etc. but....I don't know just having a week of annoyance with the school and stressing about next year already!

OP posts:

BertrandRussell · 27/07/2015 15:31

"They are moving to a new school where the head made a big point of saying they encourage competition so hopefully things will be good there."
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me. Comparisons are invidious.

getinthesea · 27/07/2015 15:44

But why is competition good for sports people and not academics? DD hates sport with a passion because it is competitive and she is bad at it, so I can see how this works, but people only care about the children who are good at sport. Why are there two standards and ways of thinking?

BertrandRussell · 27/07/2015 15:56

"but people only care about the children who are good at sport."

I think this is a false premise for a start!

BertrandRussell · 27/07/2015 15:58

But the obvious answer is that to be good at sport you have to beat other people. The does not apply to academics.

var123 · 27/07/2015 16:36

That's not strictly true though is it? If you can run 100 metres in x time, then you are good at running whether or not you happen to be racing someone who is faster or slower.

I think that if schools are willing to praise everything else, they should also praise good performance in the principle thing that they exist for! The current system rewards volatility, whereas what they should be aiming for is consistency.

getinthesea · 27/07/2015 16:52

To get into Cambridge you have to beat other people too. And indeed to get many jobs as well.

As var says, if they were being consistent all children would be praised for beating their personal best in running, not for being the fastest in their class.

My old school reports give my position in the class for each subject and overall. So the approach has changed in academics but not in sport. It's not an immutable characteristic of each.

Seriouslyffs · 27/07/2015 17:10

This is so interesting- you are describing my Primary Schooling in the 70s was, and when I was teaching in Secondary in the 90s we carefully used the words from Var's dictionary.
My DCs have experienced most education systems and the only time one of them has experienced a real 'I'm rubbish' moment was at state primary where she was on an extra help table receiving help to pass the SATs as she was a new entrant to the system.

BertrandRussell · 27/07/2015 17:36

think that if schools are willing to praise everything else, they should also praise good performance in the principle thing that they exist for! "

But that's what tests, exams and indeed getting into Cambridge is all about. They are means to an end. If you do well in them you will do well in other things too. Winning the 100m is just that- a win on that day.

BertrandRussell · 27/07/2015 17:51

And the 100m is something you have chosen to compete in (if you're the sort of person who's going to get mentioned in assembly for it) so hardly comparable.

getinthesea · 27/07/2015 18:33

There's a difference between being mentioned in assembly for an outside event - which is fine - and Sports Day, in which everyone in the class races and people win. And other people lose.

DD is dyspraxic, and so comes in about a lap after everyone else in her class. She hates sports day, but also wants to know why there aren't academic awards; she'd win reading hands down. But that doesn't happen.

getinthesea · 27/07/2015 18:35

And the fact that sports is not a means to an end, is actually the best reason for it not being competitive. For most people, being able to enjoy sport and stay fit is going to be the main reason for doing it, not to earn a living. And yet we persist in putting huge swathes of the population off sport, by making it almost entirely competitive in school. It really isn't logical at all, or defensible really.

RainyJuly · 27/07/2015 19:18

The only state schools my child in Central Scotland could be eligible for that select and give extra focused coaching input select on footballing ability!

BertrandRussell · 27/07/2015 19:37

"also wants to know why there aren't academic awards"
Tell her because her academic excellence will stand her in much better stead in the future than being good at sport. And have a word with the school about how they organise sports day- it sounds as if they are doing something badly wrong if your dd hates it so much.

OrangeSquashTallGlass · 27/07/2015 19:56

'if they were being consistent all children would be praised for beating their personal best in running, not for being the fastest in their class.'
Tbf this is exactly what happens in PE. It's only competative events where the 'fastest' are rewarded by winning. Obviously this is true of all competitions (writing, etc) where the 'best' are rewarded.

How're you getting on with finding self esteem boosting activities basketofchocolate? I know a few children go rock climbing. It's physical but not sporty and involves a large amount of logic, reasoning and planning. Could that be something worth exploring?

Lurkedforever1 · 28/07/2015 14:49

This thread makes me even more grateful for dds primary. Although she hasn't had the same input she would if she wasn't an outlier, in practical terms they've tried their best to cater to her. And because they have challenged her, she's had at least some chance of being rewarded for effort. Plus personality wise relishes the challenge over effortless success
Only exception was one ks1 teacher, but she was so spectacularly useless with anyone not smack on average it was easy to make my case, and dd got moved to an older class for academic stuff.
Even so, whilst I appreciate her primary have done their upmost every other year, it annoys me that they were still constrained by practicality, and that others in the same boat at other schools have no provision at all.
My heart sank at a secondary open eve ( the one she'd likely be allocated) when the head of maths made it very clear dd would spend the next few years repeating herself, being ignored and not having her ability aknowledged and legally there was fuck all I could do to object. Except bursary chase and there's not enough of them for every child that is an outlier/ able at their state school.
Personally I think if an able child can't be awarded for effort, they're admitting they've failed to challenge them.

Helspopje · 28/07/2015 14:58

My daughter is v proud of her 'gold certificate for being an excellent whiteboard girl and always being kind and polite'. She has stuck it up on her wall.

She wasn't that bothered about her report (exceeds in all) but was quite happy to accept the celebratory icecream.

She is not quite 5 yet but already very aware that she is quite good at the academic stuff. It is the other things that she finds more cha?lenging so the praise that she gets for those is very special to her.

Praise for something that youve lucked out in genetic roulette for isn't as 'earned thru effort' imho

BertrandRussell · 28/07/2015 15:32

"head of maths made it very clear dd would spend the next few years repeating herself, being ignored and not having her ability aknowledged and legally there was fuck all I could do to object."

So the Head of Maths was happy to fail his OFSTED then? I do wonder at all these teachers being happy to commit career suicide for the sole purpose of disobliging mumsnetters children.............

var123 · 28/07/2015 16:03

In other words you are implying other posters are liars. Nice.

What has happened to G&T recently? It used to be full of people who were itching to call you a bad mum, or tell you that you are plain deluded, or just generally be spiteful but we've had a period of calm until recently.

BertrandRussell · 28/07/2015 16:11

No. I am suggesting that there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation. And that if the head of maths said what Lurked said she said in so many words then she should have been reported at once to the Head and she would have been judged inadequate if OFSTED got to hear about it. So I hope Lurked took appropriate steps.

var123 · 28/07/2015 17:12

It happened to me twice in primary school.

I thought I had misheard the first time - year 2. So, i repeated it back to the teacher and asked if I had misheard or misunderstood. She looked me in the eye and told me that i had heard right. So, I did as you say and took appropriate steps i.e. went to see the HT. The HT responded by denying it had been said, and more importantly, assured me that it would never actually happen. Then it did happen just as the teacher said it would.
(If OFSTED had happened to visit, i would have loved to tell them and show DS's books as evidence - inducing proof that the teacher had deleted DS's his work from mathletics because she wanted him to do it all again -slowly).

The 2nd time was in a new school, in year 4. This time the teacher pre-empted me before it had even occurred to me. She asked to see me in the 2nd week of term and told me then that she would not be able to teach DS any maths that year as she had too many DC in her class who were struggling to reach 3-something. Again I went to see the HT. He believed me and said he'd think about what could be done to ensure DS got taught. Then he forgot until I reminded him. Then he sent me an email saying he was sorry he had not got back to me since our meeting three weeks previously but he would come back early the following week with, hopefully, a very good solution. Then i heard nothing for about a month until I bumped into him in the playground one day and reminded him again. He quickly went into his office and came out with two G&T books full of worksheets for G&T children. he gave them to me and told me to photocopy whatever I wanted and do it with DS at home.

Ofsted were due a visit whilst I had a child in that second school, but they haven't turned up yet. Since last week, I don't have a child there any more, so they'll never get to hear about it.

var123 · 28/07/2015 17:23

correction... this is what he wrote exactly (I am not good at deleting old emails):-

Dear Mrs Var123,

I must apologise for not following up with you on our meeting last month. Please can you give me until the start of next week and I will respond properly and I hope helpfully.

Kind regards,

That was December 2012, then he gave me the workbooks to photocopy sometime around February 2013.

Lurkedforever1 · 28/07/2015 18:54

Ofsted bollocked them long before I showed up. And it's not made any difference. It's a crappy academy obsessed with c grades and nothing else. I was told several times that both dds primary and I were wrong, and she'd consolidate and do 'mastery' type things. I even asked what they'd do if I put dd in for gcse before y7, and got mutterings about timetabling, and difficulty and only so much they can do.
Their top set is about half c grades in y11. I know the last 2 kids to get a*. They got sod all teaching either.
I know exactly what they'd do if she went, they'd say primary were wrong, reassess her, and then spend 5yrs doing sod all and when she got an a* pat themselves on the back and say they had taught so well. Nobody is sacking them over a child that still achieves high but is frustrated and dying of boredom.
The headteacher is usually busy reassuring parents they don't have bullying problems. Or fending off verbal assaults from parents pissed off their childs statemented needs aren't being met, because he redirects one to ones to kids that might get c's with support.
So yes, while the teacher didn't use the phrase 'I will ignore your dd' she might as well have. And another complaint to ofsted about an able child is minor compared to their other issues.
Most importantly though, I shouldn't have to debate whether my dd gets a suitable education with the very people who should be providing it as part of their job.

getinthesea · 28/07/2015 19:44

We had it at primary too. Teacher said he wasn't going to teach her Yr3 maths in Yr2. Which was a shame, because she'd done the Yr2 maths the year before. We also went to the head, who dithered and put her up to year three for maths and english - but only for three mornings a week - then put her back down again without consulting us. At which point we left.

Original poster

Basketofchocolate · 28/07/2015 22:15

Oh crikey....now you're worrying me! Was thinking the maths teacher for Yr2 might be ok and I should be able to believe everything they tell me.....but DS's maths test book and class book both went missing within a week of each other. Not sure how this can happen in a classroom and how coincidental it is. It means I have a new test book that I've seen with one week's scores in with which to argue he shouldn't resit that this coming Sept. They had an OFSTED due a few weeks back but was cancelled last minute due to new head starting in Sept.

OP posts:

var123 · 28/07/2015 22:30

I have two questions for everyone:-

Has anyone ever been successful in getting the school to do something that it ought to do in an ideal world, but doesn't want to do? Or even just personally known someone who has achieved this?

Has anyone ever known of an Ofsted inspection that resulted in real, permanent improvements, apart from when the school gets a 4 and the SLT & head governor all resign?

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