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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

I always said I didn't want a gifted child!

109 replies

mnistooaddictive · 15/03/2012 12:22

As a teacher I have seen how hard life is for gifted children and how they often struggle to fit in. Having done research into asd and ADHD I came across a definition of a gifted child and it is like they were describing my dd. Even down to the love of physically demanding sports such as rock climbing!
I knew she was 'bright' but I guess she is a bit more! Struggling really as I can't talk about it really as if you mention your child is gifted people think you are arrogant and superior. It is a special need like any other but you don't get the support from others you would if you told them your child had ADHD.

She is just 5 and in reception.
Any advice? Do I get a formal diagnosis? She has the compulsive movement thing I have seen described as common of gifted children. Will she need help with this?
I would love to hear other people's stories and the pitfalls to avoid.
I really really don't want to push her. She will learn in her own time when she is ready.

OP posts:
ragged · 16/03/2012 13:34

Is this a good simple checklist of the Over-excited Gifted thingie?

From that I am pretty sure that DS is merely ADHD with some cleverness, but am always open-minded about reading up on other theories.

mnistooaddictive · 16/03/2012 13:47

rabbitstew - I am not engaging with you. You have nothing constructive to say, you just want to argue. Your original question was not whether there is such a thing as a formal diagnosis, it was to suggest I was wrong because being fidgetty is not part of being gifted.

Please find someone else to argue with.

OP posts:
Xenia · 16/03/2012 14:31

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seeker · 16/03/2012 14:32

"Can I just say that all the SEn training I have had has pointed out that 'giftedness' is SEN"

I hesitate to comment, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. But I couldn't let this sentence go unremarked. You will honestly get nowhere if you go into school with this belief-it is not commonly received wisdom at all. And you will do your child no favours if you dismiss out of hand any suggestion that her behaviour -you say she is very angry- is exclusively connected to her giftedness. It may be- but it may also not be. Keep an open mind.

madwomanintheattic · 16/03/2012 14:34

Ds was also a very angry boy.

Gifted and ADHD. With asd traits.

But I have ordered the book. Grin

At last.

madwomanintheattic · 16/03/2012 14:36

Xenia, I love wilfred. Grin
He might be gifted, too, y'know. If his mum had enough money she could have put Wilfred into that private school to stimulate him. Grin

Schools love ADHD meds. It makes their job much easier as they don't need to differentiate as much. Wink

madwomanintheattic · 16/03/2012 14:38

And would just like to add that giftedness is recognised as an sn in terms of issuing Ieps, but ime, the other behaviours draw Ieps and dx at the opposite end of the sn spectrum, and a different Iep to manage them.

I am retaining an open mind. I don't know the answer, and suspect it isn't as cut and dried as would be nice.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 16/03/2012 14:39

seeker - both primaries we have applied to for DS1 (both state) have taken pains to point out that they view their brightest children as having SEN and needing focus and support in exactly the way that children who are struggling academically do.

Xenia - your posts on this thread are vile. You can make your point without being so unpleasant, can't you?

Evilclown · 16/03/2012 14:43

It means the whole class can work at the same level rather than having little Johnny doing his remedial English in the corner, whislt Wilfred bangs his head on the desk all day, Wilfred forgot his ritalin and Jane has been up all night as her mother was shooting up whilst most of the class have an IQ of the average which is only 100. No wonder children in selective private primaries do so much better.

How vile and ill informed. Selective private primaries are not necessarily better.

seeker · 16/03/2012 14:46

I am now a very angry woman. Xenia- you have gone too far. You are usually merely laughable- this time you are repellant. I have reported your last post.I don't expect it will do any good, but there isn't anything else I could do.

madwomanintheattic · 16/03/2012 14:50

And Jane! Just because Jane's mother is a heroin addict doesn't mean she isn't gifted!!!

Lordy me. ALL children deserve to have teaching which allows them to reach their potential. Not just the ones that have parents together enough to earn a schwack or move house to get one of these elusive free places for gifted kids.

Xenia, all three of my children are gifted. I need for their potential to be recognised in state ed.

madwomanintheattic · 16/03/2012 14:51

And I need them to reach that potential!

Evilclown · 16/03/2012 15:01

I have reported Xenia's post too.

Also, an average IQ of 100 is perfectly acceptable, given that it is average!! That would mean that 50% of people fall above or below it.

I realise you are proud of your daughter's Xenia, as they have attended the holy grail of private schools. However, for the majority of all children, that is 97%, state education is the reality. Your children are lucky, so please do not poke fun at disadvantaged children.

For the record, my ds is highly intelligent too, and for a while he attended a school with a very disadvantaged intake and the differentiation and help he received was second to none. So research your facts before posting such useless crap.

Xenia · 16/03/2012 15:09

Would you explain what was wrong with the post though before we just go ahead and censor it because it could be an interesting discussion?

Why would a very clever child be better off in a class where children are all sorts of different IQs and other children are disruptive? I cannot understand how their learning would be enhanced one iota. Why do all comprehensives set but state primaries don't? It is as if the state sector believes in one principle up to age 11 and then suddenly changes its mind.

seeker · 16/03/2012 15:15

State primaries do set.

Andmifmyou can't see what's wrong with your post you arn't as clever as you think you are.

KalSkirata · 16/03/2012 15:17

oh good grief Xenia. dd is at Cambridge and got the highest A level results in the country in 2 subejcts despite being at a state school. You are talking rubbish.,

rabbitstew · 16/03/2012 15:42

mnistooaddictive. I do have something constructive to say, YOU just aren't engaging. I have plenty of experience of having children with very high IQs. I sought help for my ds1's issues and got a diagnosis that didn't actually fit any of the problems I was actually seeking help for, which were: hypotonia (that's a description, apparently, not a medical diagnosis, because it can have multiple causes); hypermobility (he was actually diagnosed with ehlers-danlos syndrome for this one); motor tics (these are very common apparently, as an isolated and relatively short-term condition, in perfectly normal children and more common in children with aspergers, obsessive compulsive disorder or generalised anxiety disorder); sensory sensitivities (this is common in children with very high IQs and in children with aspergers, but unless so severe as to be the overriding factor causing your child's problems, doesn't normally form part of a diagnosis, just a description of a symptom common to many neurological issues); mild anxiety (lots of children get anxious for all sorts of reasons, it's also more common in gifted children and in aspergers and as a co-morbidity with tourettes and other ticcing disorders, and funnily enough, more common in assocation with connective tissue disorders); slightly odd motor co-ordination, but not in a pattern that fits dyspraxia (perfect co-ordination once taught how to do something, but not seeming to find some skills come as naturally to him as they do to most children, despite an exceptionally high IQ - again more common in aspergers and in connective tissue disorders, and there's a possible, theoretical link between aspergers and connective tissue disorders...). A formal diagnosis helped not one iota for the huge array of main issues my child has and which affect his daily life. If there were such a thing as a "gifted" diagnosis it would fit him better than anything else, but there ISN'T. The best you can hope for if you seek formal assessment is a DESCRIPTION of giftedness, once serious, diagnosable, conditions have been ruled out. ie it is a description once diagnosis of anything has been decided against. Hence my advice that all you can seriously and realistically do is do your best to understand your own child as an individual, because you are not going to get any help in the form of a diagnosis, just a long list of descriptions of your child's traits, an IQ score and a point in the direction of the various organisations that support gifted children. And the IQ score won't open doors for you in the way you appear to think - just ask anyone on this board.

In conclusion, you are doing the right thing by your child by looking to external organisations, books and other people to help you try to understand and support your child, if you are feeling lost and uncertain as to how to help her, but you would not be helping her cause by seeking a diagnosis. I wasted several years seeking a diagnosis of something for my child and all I got were diagnoses of things I didn't perceive to be a problem, and no doors automatically opened to help me deal with the real problems.

Turniphead1 · 16/03/2012 15:42

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rabbitstew · 16/03/2012 15:46

My ds1's school, however, treat my ds1 as the unique individual he is, recognise he is highly intelligent (his IQ score merely confirmed what they had observed) and, because they treat him as a unique and lovely person, he feels like he is a well liked, unique and lovely person. He feels understood and it turned out he didn't need his diagnoses for this to happen, because they do not adequately describe him.

EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog · 16/03/2012 15:47

Umm, Xenia. If parents at independent schools are like you, I won't be sending my gifted DD to one anytime soon. I wouldn't want her to be developing such a nasty prejudiced attitude. Or encounter the drug problems that plague every independent school I have ever heard of!

Please be more sensitive to others who are not like you, hey?

KalSkirata · 16/03/2012 15:48

Could you be any more offensive about children with SN or disadvantaged children Xenia?

ChickensHaveNoLips · 16/03/2012 15:55

State schools do stream. And it's utter rot to suggest that a gifted child can't do well in a state school environment. Plenty do.

Miggsie · 16/03/2012 15:59

I have a gifted DD, with some of the over sensitivity - my experience was that you really have to go into bat for them in the state sector, simply because DD was at the required Year 2 level when in reception so she needed additional and different work all through year 1. Luckily her year 1 teacher was excellent and there were extra classes for the 6 brightest children (although DD was the brightest in that group too.)
However, in year 2, when the emphasis was on getting the kids up to scratch for SAT tests (which DD did in reception) her experiences nose-dived. Her class teacher wasn't that great (DD started correcting her maths for instance) and for some reason the extra extension classes for the bright kids just stopped.
At this point we had some problems with DD as she was simply bored all day and was finding it difficult to interact with peers.

We changed her school, if this is not an option for you then talk to the school SEN teacher, and the head teacher about how they can make the school day interesting for your DD...some schools get the brightest children to teach the slower children, this really really annoyed me as that is the teacher#'s job and my DD effectively stopped learning at school.
Watch out for that one. The main issue I found is that a bright and questioning child can be regarded as a nuisance by some schools, particularly if the teacher is not a subject matter expert, but a generalist (hence DD being better at maths than her teacher).
It will require a lot of effort, if the word "gifted" is contentious, simply discuss your daughter's needs in terms of development - she clearly won't need repetition and also, will not need endless "more of the same" maths and English work. Get the school librarian on your side to stretch your DD with books.
See if the school will allow your DD to go off and do stuff on her own, my DD for instance spent phonics lessons making stuff in the art room.
I'd also recommend music lessons as they practise the art of staying still and attention span.
And do as much activity outside school as possible.

Codandchops · 16/03/2012 15:59

My friend's son is at Oxford following his time spent in a State school......and it was not an Outstanding one either - just a bog standard comprehensive, funnily enough he didn't suffer. Hmm.

Honestly there is some right rubbish written on this thread - not all state schools are perfect but even if they are a lot depends on the child (or his/her hot housing and stifling parents).

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 16/03/2012 16:40

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