Gifted Child being overlooked in Pre-Prep school

[doitall]

My DD goes to a private pre-prep and is currently in Y1. Our decision to send her to a private school was based on her exceptional ability (she was reading and writing at 4yo a year before starting Reception), the lack of a suitable primary school in the tough inner city East London borough where we live, and our willingness to make a lot of financial sacrifices and save for her education.

However we are becoming increasingly despondent with the school, and it's starting to become clear that she is being held back to allow others of lesser abilities to 'come forward'.

While they have at last recognised her reading skills - and given her books more suitable to her ability (a previous battle), there have been some worrisome incidences emerging. Conversations with our DD have revealed she never gets picked to answer questions in class, or to go up and write 'spellings' on the white board (always the same children who are asked, apparently). She always puts up her hand - but is starting to get demoralised and wondering why she should bother. Cap it all she was given a big role and lines in the school play - only for it to be taken away from her the next day (without explanation) and given to another child. She was left as the only child without anything to say - aside from one line. From the sublime to the ridiculous. Needless to say she was confused by it all. On a plus she's grown in confidence, is quite mature for her 6 years. However she is still quiet and needs ongoing encouragement, reassurance and of course stimulation.

I guess the point and concern I'm trying to raise is that we feel the school knows full well she will pass her 7+ exam to whichever school we choose, and therefore don't see her as a priority over other children - we think they're more concerned about getting these children 'up to speed' and leaving our DD to 'coast'.

As I mentioned at the start, private education is something we've had to really scrimp for - and we feel both her and us are being let down.

We've set up a meeting with the school to discuss, which I'm quite concerned about. I'm always uncomfortable with the 'gifted' tag, and worried that talking about it wrongly highlights me as a proud or pushy mother. It's a diffiucly subject to bring up I find. So, I'm going to be pretty nervous in such circumstances, and am worried that they'll see this and simply fob me off.

I'm just wondering if anyone out there has had a similar experience, or could offer any advice as to how we should approach the subject, ask the right questions and make the right requests with confidence - so we can get this sorted.

Many thanks one and all.

Well I would want to know why they would give her a big part only to take it away for starters.Seems pretty mean to me.

Then i would focus more on the fact that she is quiet, gets ignored and feels demoralised than I would on how bright she is. And make sure it is what she feels rather than what you feel about it.

My son was bored for the whole of primary school. Now he has stared High School he is so different-enthusiastic and keen, so I understand how you feel.
But take some comfort from the fact that these kids do tend to find their level in the end.

what was her wisc assessment like?
tbh i've never had to deal woth this in a private environment. in theory it should be easier - if you aren't getting what you are paying for, surely you take your custom elsewhere? (i realise that's not v helpful). if she is up in the 140s, then i guess you can use that as a starting point for your discussion, and just mention she is getting disillusioned, and then ask how they are differentiating for her ability.

can i ask if you are secure in your judgement that she is much brighter/ more gifted than her peers? (obv you would get some idea of this with her assessment results, but they can be a bit varied if she testested before school - did they use the pre-school or school age tests with her? i know when dd2 was 5 they decided to use the 6+ one because it would give a better idea, rather than the early years one - can't remembered what it's called now, sorry)

i would stick to the idea that it's easier to deal with in private though. essentially you can always walk.

that said, we've never had any difficulty with more able children in state. (with 3 kids, i can't afford private for all of them, so it's not an option we can consider). in yr r they just accessed the other year groups stuff (ditto on through) so you might want to consider some state options as well. (tbh most yr r groups have everything from children who can do multiplication and read c s lewis comfortably, to those who don't recognise their own name in written format, so they are well used to differentiating for a wide range of abilities) i can see that a private school would assume that their intake was more of a level, and so would see differentiation as less of a requirement. i could be wrong though.

is she gifted across the board? how many years ahead was she testing? usually two or three isn't an issue, and for reading and literacy, one of our state schools could easily cope with 5-7 years ahead. maths is trickier, but can be done with sensible links developed with secondary.

I think the "gifted tag" is a difficult one to say as a parent (I think it is okay in a meeting if school or educational psychologist have labelled your child). This is not saying a child is not gifted ( parents are actually very good at telling if their child is gifted) just that it does not sound good coming from a parent.

I would focus on what has upset your child (the play incident/not being allowed to answer qustions or choose spellings etc).

yy, that's why if you are going to go with the 'she is gifted and you are failing her' you need to be referring to the professional opinion on her ed psych assessment, rather than your own instinct.

i assumed the play thing was just an anecdote, rather than the raison d'etre, though? your meeting is to discuss differentiation?

"questions". I must buy a new keyboard where e,r,s,t,a etc actually work properly .

The differentiation maybe fine. Her feeling unvalued and ignored may affect her more MWIA.

yy, but i got the feeling the op was more worried about them not recognising her 'giftedness' and differentiating appropriately (the whole letting her coast because she'd already be able to pass the 7+ thing).

i could have misread it totally. i assumed the op was concerned that she was paying for her dd to be educated, and she felt that she was just hanging around whilst the rest of the group got educated to bring them up to her level.

if the concern is the level of attention/ nurture, and not them teaching to her level, then many apols.

my keyboard sticks because of the crumbs.

It's rather interesting MWIA that we have both read the same post and latched on to different things! I think you have focused on the

"However we are becoming increasingly despondent with the school, and it's starting to become clear that she is being held back to allow others of lesser abilities to 'come forward'. "

Where as I focused on the role in the play/question answering. Prob says more abit about us and our concerns for our childen FWIW!

opps "about us" !

Thanks for your swift responses. My concern is that she is being penalised for being at a higher level than her peers: basically what iggly2 states - that she feels (and has said herself in similar terms) that she is ignored and unvalued (I don't know what MWIA stands for... sorry) - while those children at levels beneath her are given all the attention and rewards.

I don't know what 'tests' you are referring to madwomanintheattic ....?

As for the play, we've heard that there was criticism of the school from other parents that the 'most able child' was given a big role. Hence our frustration that the school bowed under pressure and therefore took the role away. Pretty mean on every count in my book, and has made me reevaluate my opinions of some of the parents.

The fact that we are paying is not the main thrust at all, but just a galling factor in the whole saga.

Sorry MWIA is short for MadWomanInTheAttic!

more like reading what all the other posts in this section usually focus on...

i mean wechsler test results or whatever was used to dx her as 'gifted', sorry. they use wisc iv normally, but i can't remember what the pre-school ones are. if the psych dx prior to school it might have been a different test.

ok. so your issue isn't really the level of teaching at all then, and i was barking up the wrong tree. their pastoral skills seem to be a bit haphazard, and the whole parental pressure thing says a lot. i'm guessing the other parents are all at home saying 'we pay for this, and dd isn't getting her fair share of attention because of that clever kid. it isn't right, i'm going to complain'. no easy solution.

so your meeting is about dd feeling undervalued and demotivated? that is exactly the same problem in state tbh. the naughty kids get stickers or 'star of the week' because they managed to sit still for a lesson, and the child who writes an essay and breezes the long division gets nothing because they know she can do it.

is dd a confident child at home? how does it work with her setting? do they each have personal targets? how is she getting on with peer group? do they have play dates etc?

Hello doitall. My DD is in year 8 now at an average high school and is very able. Primary school always labelled her as "gifted" and all the rest of it. Yes she was and still is very good at all subects and was reading and writing easily before she was 3 (which i tought her to do as i was taught by my mum at the same age) and could tell the time by 4. At primary her levels were always higher than friends and found the work easy. But like your dc she was usually left to her own devices and not asked her opinions or picked for answers. She has always been a quiet girl and always kept her head down. When she had finished her work she was told to help the others in the lower ability groups. I soon put a stop to this and was told to give dd some extra work, which they reluctantly did. And yes it was always the lower ability children who got asked things and were given gold stars etc just for getting one thing right after being naughty all day! Although i must say that dd was always given the best parts in school plays with the most lines. Teachers said that it was because they knew dd would remember them. I agree with madwomanintheattic - dd was always "expected" to get things right and even now at high school i think it is the same. She took her GCSE maths in year 7 and gained A* but hardly any praise from school as they had predicted she would get it! Now in maths she is asked to look through an A level workbook and maybe do a few questions. She says it is boring. What can i do?

I think it's perfectly all right to go in and ask about her being stretched:

Do however be aware that to a 6yo, being picked to answer questions only every 20th time (or however many children there are in the class)- in other words, in a fair way- will seem like never being picked.

I think the money side might be stressing you, and raising your expectations of a private school.
Given that she has exceptional abilities would she not get a bursery?
Our local private school gives 100% if needed to children who really do have exceptional abilities.
Might be worth looking around at bursery schemes.

I tried the bursary route, RosemaryandThyme. Primary pushed for my dd to get into one of three local privates and they all said that priority was given to children already at private schools and it was more for children already paying who might not be able to afford it any more so needed help. This of course wasn't mentioned on any literature i had from the schools. It was only mentioned when i spoke to one of the schools and asked about the entrance tests etc and the bursar almost had heart attack when she asked what primary dd is at! Not even a bad school. Said dd could still take tests (at a cost) to "see how she would get on". I declined as even if she got 100% i was told she would not get in as she is at state primary.

The label of gifted can be a millstone for children and parents. I would concentrate on the way in which she seems to be ignored. Giving her a part in the play then withdrawing it is bizarre - ask why that was done. Was there any chance that DD didn't want the part and said so - just saying... Also ask the school how she can be involved more in class. She says she puts up her hand etc but ask the staff how she behaves - again, just saying... You need to get both sides. Throw the ball firmly into the school's court but don't major on the gifted thing.

I think bursaries at young primary age are very hard to get (not saying impossible) as the school benefits more from bright children at secondary level (league table results). All your current finances are scrutinised (including house equity/ furniture value/ car value etc) but also future earnings (if they offer a bursary in the short term will it mean longerterm the family will be able to finance full fees). Often bursaries are reviewed if finances change. Bursaries often are prioritised to children from families who are already at the school who have experiencd an alteration in their finances, the school like to see loyalty.

MWIA : "more like reading what all the other posts in this section usually focus on... ". So true!

It can be fustrating the lack of praise bright children seem to get, but in somecases I think this is done for their benefit. My DS is extrovert and very talkative (and whisper it...... probably in danger of being a show off). He does not win prizes or get much public recognition. For him this approach is of great benefit as it helps him fit in more(he does still have the odd lack of confidence crisis but this is not common).

I think your Dd sounds very different though so it maybe a case of the dangerous "one size fits all" approach.

How do you know she's gifted, OP?

Fraidylady - OP mentions in the first post that her DD was reading and writing at 4, before she started school (and there have probably been other indications of giftedness over the years). Parents are very good at identifying gifted children according to studies into giftedness.

What made you question the OP?

Hmm, my ds was also reading and writing at 4, before starting school, but it never occurred to me to class him as gifted.

I think gifted denotes having had ed psych tests etc as someone up thread was saying.

It's a phrase I wouldn't use for a child! I think unless they are getting something tangible out of their ability/intelligence is it really a gift (which implies gaining some form of benefit). I feel "gifted" is used in so many ways (like the phrase "bright ") that it means different things to different people. I would say a child "is advanced in ....." and maybe add "by X number of years". As for early reading that depends a lot on exposure to books etc and their interest (some when suddenly interested learn really quickly later on, I doubt they are less bright). As a family we read pre-school (don't know about writing but surely a lot can at least write their names and left handers may have an unfair disadvantage on that one) dosen't mean anything.

Yes there is a scientific definition as in an IQ score above "X" (and even this seems to vary). Here I would say "gifted IQ as defined by an IQ score of .... taken at age...". IQ scores for the same person are shown to vary as well (different scores at different ages etc) so testing is obviously not infalible. Testing at certain ages is more unreliable as well. The fact that practising leads to an increased score (try it yourself) proves that it is not just "innate ability" that is tested.