Anyone's dc seen peter congdon or joan freeman?

[mrsshears]

My dd will be having an assessment and we are looking at it being either of these two.
Does anyone have any experiences with either?and if so what can we expect on the day.
TIA

*I do not wish this to be turned into a debate about assessments,this is what we have decided to do and have thought long and hard about what is right for our dd.

Sorry if I missed it but have scanned thread - Have you got an appointment with the head now? The teachers sounds as if she feels threatened (not by you!) that her teaching practice is not up to scratch. One teacher does not a whole school make though. The head must have encountered a gifted child before & not to be differentiating for even the plain bright sounds well off kilter.

Saying that we moved DS in yr2 (nothing to do with academic support) and the change of school was a very positive experience.

Yes, I'm at the results too, that's very disappointing. Agree with all the posters above (apart from adamschic - please do some research into these issues before you post unhelpful comments!) But, like someone pointed out: academically good schools can be surprisingly inflexible and unwilling to change their approach.

I would arrange to see the head and go in armed with not only the test results but lots of things to persuade him/her : samples of the work your DD has done at home, info from the NAGC, research into giftedness (copies so you can leave them with the head) and even books.

Write to the governors if the head is still recalcitrant, ask how the school deal with G&T, how they identify them and what provision they make. Is there a policy?

It might be that they need time to adjust to this news, and they need to be able to do it in a way that saves face and allows them to change their minds.... so give them a proper chance. The issue might be new to them. Don't forget how rare and IQ of 145 is - they'll meet a child like her only once in a blue moon.

And by all means, research other local schools while you're doing all this! The best of luck anyway, I really sympathise with your situation :)

Hi Mrsshears.

I've been lurking on this thread because we've been through this identical situation with ds... to a point.

Ds identified as A&T at his nursery. Also showing various signs of high ability at home. We took him to see Peter a year ago when ds was 4yr5mo. Sure enough, his IQ was 148 - the numeracy element was in the 160s. Suspicions confirmed. We bought lots of extra books at his ability level, more challenging toys, puzzles, lots of maths-based stuff etc

That's where the similarities between our circumstances end. Because the last thing I wanted to do was go up to ds's school and present Peter's report. I felt that ds' ability would stand out and I trusted them to recognise and do what they felt necessary. I did not believe that presenting them with a report would be of any benefit. Ds' abilities are blatently obvious and I knew the teachers would find out for themselves (why wouldn't they?)

Lo and behold, 3 weeks into Year 1, ds comes home with differentiated maths work, he's already given whatever books he wants to read and he's also given harder spellings. At our recent parents evening, his teacher said 'He's A&T at maths and his reading is exceptional etc etc'

So, our relationship with the teachers is maintained, ds is happy and we can stretch him at home if we feel it's necessary.

I have to be honest and say that some of the recommendations on here are ridiculous and will only go to alienate the teachers/ school even more. Marching up there with NAGC literature is not going to make any difference and will do more harm than good - guaranteed. Teachers are professionals and nothing will get their backs up more than being patronised. Your child presenting abilities over and beyond their peers in a classroom context is what will make a difference to the school/ teacher's outlook.

You probably won't want to hear this, but if I was in your position, I'd put the report away in a cupboard and try your best to get things back on track in terms of your relationship with the teachers at the school. Leave your dc there.

visitor, there was a problem with the school before her dd was tested. she wwas tested as a means of finding out what the problems were. the report has said that her dd is underachieving so her skills are not going to show.

in your case however, the school are supportive so there is less of an issue.

She's underachieving at the moment... she's a child. Some A&T's don't really achieve until they hit secondary, University or even Adulthood. The point is, is that it only becomes a problem when you make it one.

Evening everyone,thanks again or all your support

onesandwichshort dd is alot better than she was socially and has lots of friends,she can be a bit intollerant at times particulairly when the other children get a bit too noisy.

toughdescisions yes we are going to have an appointment with the head,no date as yet though.

eyeofnewt I don't think dd's teacher thinks that an IQ of 145 is unusual,she didnt seem to anyway,she really imo doesnt view dd as a high ability child which i think is half the problem,i think this may have affected dd's confidence a bit too.

visitor I will agree to disagree with you,your situation actually sounds very different to ours,if we had'nt had taken dd's report into school she would just have carried on underacheiving,loosing confidence and becoming invisible.
You have been very lucky.

Visitor, I am afraid that your experience although relevant is not necessarily a lot of parents' of gifted or even very bright children's experience.

Some schools do not and will not recognise that some children are very bright and need to be pushed/supported/extended (whatever is appropriate) to achieve. So you sit there and watch your child fester, then lose confidence then starting to underachieve. You go in to make enquiries and you are made to feel like an irritation or a pushy parent.

You convince yourself that maybe you are, you let it be, then you see more underachievement and just a general slide downwards. You then take it upon yourself and start stretching your child at home and you remind yourself how quickly your child is picking things up and how very little they have learned at school and you start to see that little sparkle back in their eyes. You will never know why exactly this happens, but it is painful to watch - especially when your child loses confidence and becomes withdrawn.

Of course this scenario is not true for all gifted children; there are some teachers who are excellent and will cater for them and there are schools that will too; and also there are children who do not suffer from lack of differentation as their personality is such that they will just continue to thrive regardless. But many many children suffer the scenario I described earlier, and having parented one of them I can assure you it has been a rollercoaster. It is hard to know what to do for the best in that situation.

I've been through 3 or 4 IQ tests and the results have all been between 142 and 154. I totally underachieved at school, was never pushed, no-one - including my parents - gave a toss that I was very bright. I went to dreadful schools and was 'invisible' for the main part. It has only been in the last 10 or so years that I've fully realised my potential - in adulthood. Why the desperation to jump on talent as soon as it's recognised and push it as hard as it will go? Why the panic? So what if a child with a high IQ is performing average/ slightly above average at age 6 or 7? They have YEARS ahead of them and putting them into a box at such a young age is dangerous in my opinion. The best anyone can do in the case of an able/ talented/ gifted child is ask themselves 'are they happy?' If the answer is yes, then there isn't a problem. Unless you create one.

Totally agree with every post on this thread by visitor398. I don't think the way to handle this is to pay a fortune for a very young child to be labelled then waltz into school waving the piece of paper. Btw my experience was to ignore the yr 2 teacher who was hinting that DD might need assessing for what, I didn't ask, but have a suspicion it might have been aspergers.

There are lots of things you can do at home with a bright child of this age and make it fun for them to learn over and above the school cirriculum. I can understand how frustrating it must be to see your DD being on a low ability table when you know she can do better and there is no harm in questioning this. I do remember being told in yr 2 that mine will struggle with the yr 2 sats in maths, she was in 2nd to bottom table. When the results came out (years ago now) she was commended by the head as she was the top achiever. They will out themselves at their own pace. IMHO.

Visitor, did you enjoy being invisible & going to a dreadful school then? I don't want to appear harsh, as tone is often difficult to gauge when writing, but you seem to be saying that this is ok, because you have managed to live up to your potential in adulthood. But not all gifted children grow up like you. A lot just drift by, happy to do little work & manage to get through school with good grades, then expect to find the same at university only to realise too late that at this point they needed to work to achieve!

I totally agree with you that the most important question you can ask your dc is if they are happy, but I've always maintained that I don't mind what my children grow up to be as long as they are happy with their chosen path. But it does help if they know the full extent of the choice they are making. If they had the potential to be a surgeon, or a scientist but chose to be a sahm (as I have,) that's fine. But I want them to realise they have great potential. I don't think its about putting pressure on them, just opening their eyes to things.

I think bridges are being burnt with the school . I think that schools are only part of growing up and developing academically (including work ethic) but a lot has to come from home as well. I worry everyone puts too much emphasis on a slip of paper and the school. Parent input is far more important than these.

Develop a love of learning in your DC yourself and help her progress so she is confident to show the teacher what she can do. Look into other schools (but they will want your Dd to be able to show her intelligence not just potential). If you like the sound of private school then do (whispers it) try to tutor her so she does well on entrance assesments so you can get scholarships etc (then you will not need the test results-they will twig). I think a lot of my son's progress at school and the work the school put into him is because he showed his potential and they "worked" it out for themselves-so here I agree with (many) parts of visitor's comments.

I also think there is lots of time. I love science and only got a chance to get into it at secondary school so she may develop later. just give her a chance to explore new topics and see what sticks. Instruments are great for this (and up the chance of scholarships later if you want to go down this route and look great on UCAS forms etc ).

"it does help if they know the full extent of the choice they are making. If they had the potential to be a surgeon, or a scientist but chose to be a sahm (as I have,) that's fine. But I want them to realise they have great potential. I don't think its about putting pressure on them, just opening their eyes to things." This is great and supportive ....and for the parents to do IMO.

Well said Iggly :)

Summary .. I would do my best to help my child to reach their potential . View different schools till I found one myself and DC liked. Prepare them for entrance (if selective). If they noted on selection the child's brightness I would keep quiet about test results (esp if they already offered scholarship/bursary etc in the case of private school so that the child could attend).

However I would mention the result if I thought it would make a difference as to whether they would offer financial assistance. This would be especially the case if the fees were too much for her to attend without financial aid.

Ohh help just read my last post... I am devious mum (new form of pushy mum !

Well said both Iggly2 and Joyn ! It clearly is a situation where the school are on a completely different page and not terribly co-operative. Agree with Iggly's crafty advice above

Visitor - I am at the lack of support from your parents! You poor thing! (Btw - I'm dying to know - what is A&T please? I'm assuming it's some sort of secret code for "super gifted" - pardon my ignorance. I'm only a mother to a G&T child myself.)

iggly i would love school to see how dd is at home,they would think it was a different child,she is constantly learning,writing stories,reading,asking me to google the answer to x y and z and her passion for learning is alive and kicking at home.
I wonder how much these sensory issues are affecting school too,dd talks alot about it being far too noisy in class and children distracting her, i really have no clue how that could be helped as it is down to dd's oversensitivities and would happen whichever school she attends.
From what dd tells me it sounds as if they have done some kind of assesments with her this week so hopefully the outcome of those will be helpful as it sounds as if dd has enjoyed doing them.

I was wondering abouy A and T too eyeofnewt

MrsShears - DD is just the same about the noise thing too! But I suppose what I was wondering was whether the boredom was colouring her other experiences of school yet. We've come to the decision that we'll start kicking up a fuss when that happens - but we're in a slightly different situation where school are just a bit woolly, not actively arsey.

But if you are looking at private rather than state schools, do mention ability. We looked at one, just wanting to compare with where we were, and they offered us a bursary out of theb

Able and Talented.

Still a crock of shit; ALL children excel at something.

...blue, just based on our description of DD and the fact that they needed more girls in that year. I think private schools are more willing to negotiate these days. But we didn't take it, as we'd like to give the state schools a bit more of a chance first.

So have the dropped the 'gifted' in favour of 'able' nowadays. I suppose it stops people getting their knickers in a twist and confusing 'gifted' with 'genius' .

Mrsshears would prioritising small class sizes potentially help?

A&T means 'Able & Talented'. Because what does 'Gifted' mean?

Joyn: No, I couldn't care less that I was "invisible". I had a good time at school, actually. I found one or two other able kids and we bounced off each other while the teachers did their best to control the rest. But the other point you raised was spot on; you said it didn't matter to you what your dc became as long as they reached their potential. Well, that's where some "gifted" people don't encounter that realisation until adulthood. The area where I work is one that is not something you learn at school. There are incredibly talented architects, politicians, engineers... the list goes on... none of these subjects are taught specifically at school and therefore it might take time for the 'able' child to realise that great synergy between something they're extremely good at and something they like to do. Yes, for some children that will present itself via traditional academic subjects. But for others, regardless of IQ, it won't manifest itself until later on or adulthood.

I don't mean to be contentious, but please people lets be realistic about our dc and their ability levels and how we handle it with their schools. I also agree with all posters who speak of the 'home education' being more important than what they learn at school.

dd2 is in the same bracket (she was tested with the wisc at 5, rather than the pre-school tests) but tbh we only tested because we needed to prove she didn't have any lds. (all on the other thread)

as far as school goes, she's always been fine. she loves the environment. they have discussed moving her up (i should add she's in her third school in y3, because we've moved a lot, so have experienced how three different school shave dealt with a little kid in the vs range) but haven't done so. she's always accessed books from higher year groups to read whilst everyone else learns to read (she taught herself before yr r etc), and for the last two years has run a 'story writing club' at lunchtimes (y2 and 3), so the schools have differentiated to an extent, but not across the board. the last school did re-timetable so that she could take part in project work with higher year groups (they did a reasonable amount of inter-year work anyway) but as far as i'm aware they didn't actually do it...(?) this year in her new school she's in a 3/4 split class, and at my first meeting the teacher just assumed she would be moving up to the middle school next year. (she won't. she has another year of elementary)

it's a bit more complex as she has cp, so struggles with recording. this year she's using a netbook in class though, so she's not limited by her fine motor control, and she's being accelerated through the cursive programme away from print, as the stop/start nature of print is impossible for her.

what are you actually looking for from school, mrss? our first infant school had a sideways extension programme which was just a percussion class, which was by invitation only, and they sent out detail of nagc, and also a yg&t series of workshops that one of the universities was running, but there wasn't an awful lot of actual child-specific differentiation if i'm honest. the same school moved ds1 up for maths, so did subject specific stuff on occasion.

do you have some specific areas that you think they need to look at? (genuine question)

it is a childs entitlement to be educated in school. all children should be differentiated for. this is harder at either end of the spectrum, but it is still the teachers job to differentiate.