Implications of not vaccinating?

[Devvers]

Hi everyone, I have a beautiful seven week old baby boy and am soon to be contacted by our GP to organise an appointment for his 8 week vaccinations. I am really concerned about some of the articles and reports I have read about the potential side affects of some of the vaccines and am therefore trying to do some more research into whether, he should a) have them all at all and b) have them at 8 weeks or delay until we feel he is a bit more robust.

I would be interested to know if anyone was successful in delaying the normal programme but still being able to get their child vaccinated on the NHS but just on a later timetable and also whether anyone has made the decision to not vaccinate their child but then contracted one of the illnesses.

Its such a difficult decision, you feel like your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't!

Would really appreciate any advice/experiences.

Thanks very much.

I left the MMR until ds was 3. I thought this way if he did have autism then it would show before he had the jab so the jab would not be to blame, he was fine.

Whooping cough/polio/meningitis are really nasty illnesses, it's better to innoculate.

It is a personal decision and you will get lots of conflicting advice. The DOH advice is based upon what they are advised.During the antenatal period you will have conferred some immunity to your baby. Your DS will have been born protected by the immunity he has acquired from you. Research suggests that babies begin to lose this natural immunity between 8-12 weeks after birth which is why the immunisation programme starts at that stage.

Some of the things immunised against are rare due to immunisation but others do make an appearance from time to time - whooping cough for example tends to peak every 4 years or so. All in all it's up to you. I didn't delay but then am a HV and felt fairly confident that it was the right thing to do for my baby - he was fine. (Actually I lie - my DH took DS in while I sat in the waiting room and blubbed )
I know what you mean about damned if you do and damned if you don't - whatever you do someone somewhere will try and make you feel guilty - don't let them. This is YOUR baby and you can do things your own way. In my very humble opinion these jabs are safe but it's a personal decision and you could wait a bit longer. If a baby has a cold or is unwell then often a practice nurse might suggest waiting until the baby is better so your baby will by no means be the only one who doesn't get them bang on 8 weeks if you decide to wait.

You can join your local Arnica group and get lots of hands on info on the vax/unvax issue. I found it very helpful and supportive.

health.groups.yahoo.com/group/arnicaparents/

I didn't vax mine at his 8 week appt - just told them I wanted to wait and that was fine - no pressure. The diseases are very rare so you can take your time making the decision. The schedule is only a guideline. You can start later and spread them out whatever way you want.

I haven't given DD any vaccinations at all and she is nearly 8.

There are no implications if you talk to your GP and discuss things sensibly.

I know that he would give her the vaccs if I change my mind and he knows that I am endlessly reviewing this as she gets older and circumstances arise.

Some of the baby jabs would no longer be terribly relevent past a certain age.

The diseases aren't rare. Uncommon perhaps in this country but that's largely because of vaccination.
Op - I believe the vaccinations are safe and a better option for my children than the risk of contracting serious illnesses. I know 8 week old babies seem very wee - but that's all the more reason to protect with vaccination. 'Wild' illnesses are no respecters of how robust or otherwise your child is.

The NHS recomended vaccine schedule is effective and should be followed.

Anything else increases the risks to your child and other in contact with them.

whooping cough is not that rare and trust me you don't want your baby to get it. Personally think the vaccines are perfectly safe. I delayed the MMR until 18 months. Had no problems with that.

German measles went round our nursery, quite a few unvaccinated children caught it.

Mine had the under 1 yr vacs - ds1 wasn't very well after the 2nd lot - but otherwise fine. I delayed a bit on the MMR (as have cousin with autism/links were still being made in the press and I wasn't immunised against whooping cough as a child and had the others given singly) but dh has a scientific background and is pro vacs. Suggested I look at a few big studies and the stats which eased my mind a bit but still made dh take dcs to have them.

Implications - none via the GP but maybe we didn't delay long enough to register. Nursery wanted the dates of vacs - no idea though what their policy is if you don't have them or even if they check this info.

This is such a contentious issue that you will get the whole range of opinion. Mine, for what it is worth, is that I didn't get my childredn vaccinated only for their benefit, but also for the benefit of the whole community. My two may well have been super able to fight off all sorts of bugs, but they might still have carried an infection that could have killed our friend's little girl who has a potentially fatal heart condition. Of course, they still get illnesses that could do this, but mass vaccination could work to eradicate some of these diseases forever.

Most of the "potential side effects" you'll have heard about, Devvers, are MMR related. The immunisations they have earlier are much less in dispute (if at all??). At 8 weeks they get immunised against Diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), polio and Haemophilus influenzae type b and pneumococcal infection. Think about it - if you go to A&E with a cut from standing on a nail in a park, as I did last week, they give you a tetanus jab. Tetaanus is terrible and serious. If you read up about what the symptoms are of each of the illnesses if they aren't immunised and do end up catching it, then you can work out which risk seems worst to you. I personally don't know anyone in RL who hasn't let their child have the early baby jabs (though some have had them a bit late).

The MMR is a decision for a bit later on, as isn't given until baby over a year. I know a few people who haven't wanted it, and have paid for elements of it as separate jabs instead. I don't have worries about the MMR personally, but you can look more into it at the time; I'd focus on them one at a time if I were you.

Op, read up about incidence of the diseases etc. There hasn't been a case of polio in the uk since the 70s iirc. The last major outbreak of diptheria occured in Russia after the collapse of the ussr among the chaos of the healthcare system and the poor sanitary conditions. Breastfeeding protects against hib. Your 8 week old baby is v unlikely to get a puncture wound from something and contract tetanus so you do have the time to research and make your decision. Don't be pressured or guilted into something you don't feel comfortable with yet.

Re, german measles. You don't get offered this vax until 13 months anyway so there's nothing you can do about it right now and I'm not really sure why it was mentioned. In any case, german measles is mild in children, it only really poses a risk to a developing foetus.

Polio is uncommon because of vaccination. If you chose not to vaccinate on that basis you are basically gambling your child's safety on the decisions of other mothers. Diptheria is still around in Eastern Europe and is one of the most horrible illnesses you can imagine. The protection breastfeeding offers against Hib and many other illnesses is impossible to predict or confirm.

Northernlurker, the chance of the OPs child contracting any of these diseases within the next few weeks is tiny. All she wants to do is postpone until she can do more research. I hate the whole 'stick to the schedule or you put your child and everyone else's child at risk' attitude. It is wrong to force someone into a decision they are not sure about using scare tactics.

But is it acceptable for me to want "healthy" babies to have their vaccinations to ensure herd protection will protect my very vulnerable seriously disabled child?

Yes, OP, take your time and read up what you can, and I hope you make the decision to give the vaccinations to your ds.

(Congratulations on his birth btw!)

Re the nursery thing..
DDs nursery didn't need her vaccinated , nor did her school

Of course should you chose to delay or not to vaccinate then, like me, you have to pay far more attention re minor illnesses etc and be caustious about keeping any suspicious symptoms at home. Equally you have to watch for things like standing on nails in the garden . Should DD get a potential skin break then, at that time, I could pop to A & E and get her a tetnus.
Actually she would be offered one routinely in that instance.

I also look at likely infection. Should DD travel to an area where diptheria was prevealent then I may consider.

the vaccination choices, once you step aside from the schedule, becomes a matter of monitor and review.

Some children cannot be vaccinated easily or safely and so the notion of stepping outside the programme is hardly extraordinary. But you need to do your research and be sensible to reviewing it.
You also need to be prepared for some lecturing questioning and even hostility.

Does anyone know what the implications are for having vaccinations like tetanus, polio and diptheria in later life-ie a child in their teens /early adulthood who may not have had these in childhood but then may want to travel work in an area where these diseases are present.

I didn't have any immunisations until I was about 7, I have had measles and whooping cough and if you are fairly healthy they are quite easy to fight off.

It is highly unlikely that your baby will come into contact with the illnesses that are vaccinated against at 8 weeks, so don't feel pressured into doing it if you don't want to. Someone told me that it was important to get the vaccinations because measles can kill a young baby, which is true but the vaccination isn't given to 13 months anyway

grapes - vaccinating 13 month olds protects babies from diseases like measles because it reduces the prevalence of the illness in the community.

Bubbley - we don't know that the op's child is unlikely to contract the serious illness vaccinated aginst at 8 weeks. How could we possibly know that? What we do know is that the demonstrated risk of those vaccinations causing any harm is beyond tiny.

Northernlurker, have a look at the incidence stats for those diseases on the WHO website. The chance of anyone catching any of those diseases (never mind an 8 week old) is tiny.

Mine aren't vaccinated (yet) they are three and five. Well,DD2 has had a tetanus vac as she had a cut to her face when she was 6m,and needed the jab.But nothing else.I am still agonising about what to do/if/when,I'm not completely anti vaccination but we have a strong family history of allergy/asthma etc so have to weigh that up,plus the number of vaccinations at the moment seems excessive.DD1 possibly had rubella this week but we will never know as the GP said there was no way of telling.I did keep her completely at home just in case.they caught swine flu (again,not confirmed but v,likely) and chicken pox but nothing else so far.DD2 is still bf,but only a few times a day so probably not enough to make a difference.It is very hard to decide what to do.I sympathise.