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Anyone who has had Celvapan

28 replies

brightredballoon · 10/01/2010 22:32

Were you happy with its safety?
I am 25wks pregnancy and am in such a tizz about getting vaccinated against swine flu, I thought I was comfortable receiving the Celvapan vaccine but canceled my apointment at the last minute. I feel so stressed about whether to get the vaccine or not.
It was a post from someone on another forum saying about the new vero cell technology used in Celvapan to make the virus carrying a risk of the vaccine being infected with HIV that panicked me.

I have spoken to my GP and MW but both just say that the Royal college of Obstetricians are advising pregnant women to be vaccinated, I don't feel reassured by this, I wish they could answer my questions.

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Hobnobfanatic · 11/01/2010 20:18

I had the first jab at 18ish weeks IIRC. I'm having the second on Fri - was meant to have had it last week, after it was cancelled due to snow problems. More snow forecast here again- I hope I can make it! It will really put my mind at rest, as I've heard many horror stories of pg and SF. There were no symptoms after the jab, unlike what I've heard about Pandemrix.

brightredballoon · 11/01/2010 22:10

Hi Hobnob!!

You will see I am still deliberating over whether to get vaccinated or not. I felt sure I was happy with Celvapan but then worried myself silly with googling too much.

Glad you and baby have been fine after the jab, hope the one on Friday is as smooth.

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sunshinedaysandgiggles · 11/01/2010 22:28

I have exactly the same worries with Celvapan. I too read about the HIV (to do with Baxter who manufacture the vaccine) and the fact that it containts cancerous cells!!!!!!! aaaghhh. My children have had the normal jab but I am due to have the Celvapan on Thursday and just dont know what to do. It is the first time a flu jab has ever been produced not in egg so I feel like a right guinea pig!

Hobnobfanatic · 12/01/2010 10:59

Oh, I'm too scared to google the Celvapan/HIV thing now!

brightredballoon · 12/01/2010 17:09

Sunshine - are your pregnant hence you getting Celvapan?

Does anyone know what vaccine pregnant women are being given in Europe and the US? I would love to get an idea of how many people are having the celvapan or others.

I have done a full circle and even though I have numerous concerns about pandemrix I am not thinking maybe its better for me and the kids to receive that one after all.

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sunshinedaysandgiggles · 12/01/2010 22:08

Hi brightredballoon. No not pregnant just asthmatic and allergic to eggs. My sister is pregnant and has been offered Pandemrix but refused it.

kissyfur · 15/01/2010 14:29

really wishing I hadn't clicked on this thread now! far too much scaremongering going on with this whole swine flu issue.

brightredballoon · 15/01/2010 23:50

Kissyfur - I am not scaremongering I am asking people's opinion on their experiences and asking if they have any information on these vaccines!

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mama2moo · 16/01/2010 12:49

I had Pandemrix last Wednesday and have been fine.

I was 37 weeks pg and apart from a sore arm and a bit of a dodgy tummy all is ok. Baby is still moving like mad and I do feel better for knowing I can now go out and not worry if someone sneezes near me!

It is a very hard choice to make. You can have Celvapan if you are pg now but it does take longer before you are safe against sf.

brightredballoon · 16/01/2010 14:50

Hi mama2moo, yes the Doctor explained to me that its takes longer to build up immunity to Celvapan as its two doses and doesnt have the adjuvents in it.

Glad to hear your immunisation went well.

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Hobnobfanatic · 16/01/2010 14:55

Well, I had the second jab yesterday. I'm quite relieved, now.

BRB - I remember reading that pg women in Germany are given Celvapan and are advised against Pandemrix. Apparently Angela Merkel has also had Celvapan!

pofarced · 16/01/2010 15:05

Right, this is nonsense. There was a separate scare with Baxter and HIV contaminated blood products years ago for haemophiliacs, not vaccines. Vero cells are not contaminated with HIV. They use Vero cells to make IPV polio vaccine which every child has in the primary immunisations.

Baxter doesn't have a great record which is a separate concern but vero cells do not contain HIV.

brightredballoon · 16/01/2010 15:11

Thanks for clearing that up pofarced. I knew it was to do with haemophiliacs but was led to understand it to do with the vero cell technology.

Hobnob - hello! Yes I am sure someone mentioned that in Europe pregnant women were having Celvapan. I was on the MHRA website earlier and it said that 23million doses of Pandemrix and 260,000 doses of Celvapan have been given across Europe, I thought it might be higher for Celvapan?

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kissyfur · 17/01/2010 06:06

yes thanks for clearing that up for me too pofarced..

sorry brightredballoon, my original reply was a bit of a knee jerk reaction. I am sure you didn't intend to scare anyone it's just that as a PG lady who's had celvapan I clicked on your thread and read the line about the HIV/Baxter thing and got pretty scared and worried.

had my 1st dose on 22nd december and get the 2nd dose on Feb 2nd, which should be after my baby is born as I'm due on 23rd. I didn't have any reaction at all to the jab.. I felt quite relieved afterwards too hobnob as I'd done a hell of a lot of reading up and deliberating over the whole issue.

brightredballoon · 17/01/2010 10:12

Hi Kissyfur

With hindsight I should have put more in my heading so that people could avoid clicking on the thread if they wanted to steer clear.

I think I have decided to get the jab but still unsure which one to get. With my pregnancy brain in gear I am struggling to make the most basic of decisions let alone ones like this. It was one thing deciding for myself but now I have to decide for my DC as well is really stressing me out. DH is trying to be of use and give his input but he says its up to me to make the final decision and he will be 100% with me whatever that is.

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Emmysmummy · 19/01/2010 17:49

I have had the first dose of Celvapan. I have also worked in cell culture in a biotech facility for 7 years. I am 32 weeks pregnant.

A few things I want to add:

The HIV contamination issue happened years ago with supplies of a clotting factor to haemophiliac patients. This was when HIV was first characterised, and no efficient method had been developed to detect it.

As far as Vero cells being contaminated with HIV goes, that's just rubbish. They are used to study HIV, for the same reason they have been used to "grow" this vaccine - i.e. they are well suited to support the growth of viruses. I have read the previous post about the supposed contamination, and its clear that somebody has misinterpreted what theyve read. The cell line, as it's supplied for use, does not carry any viruses. You have to purposefully infect it. It is routinely screened for any viral motifs that indicate viral contamination.

On the "it is made using cancerous cells" note, all cell lines used to study or develop anything are technically cancerous. They either originate from a tumour, or they are transformed to keep replicating. There are no whole cells in the final product, as the virus is purified from it in a process that makes this impossible. It is then treated with formaldehyde (would halt any further cell division very effectively), and then gamma irradiated (anything that might have been growing in it, certainly isn't anymore). But as I said, there are no cells in there in the first place, just dead virus protein.

Just wanted to clear up a few of the things that have been said.

I declined the Pandemrix because of the squalene in it (and I do have access to proper research), but am perfectly happy to have had the Celvapan.

brightredballoon · 19/01/2010 19:07

Hi Emmysmummy

Thanks for your very informative post, it has made very good reading and very reassuring as well.

I have found a link to the following text which I think is where the confusion has been regarding vero cell technology and HIV:
Read down to Oral Polio Vaccine I came across a different article a couple of hours ago but can't find it now, the earlier one was written by the chap who was trying to prove HIV did come from vero cells of SIV infected monkeys in the making of he polio vaccine - the above article is saying it was a controversial link and has been dismissed.

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brightredballoon · 19/01/2010 19:09

Emmsymummy, would you share the research on the Squalene?

Just wondered as well if you are able to have a look at this link about clinical trials of Celvapan it says it has been completed but I can't find anything to read on the page, as in what the results of the trial was?

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mommymeggie · 21/01/2010 00:09

I had the Celvapan shot in my third trimester back in November. It was very easy and I prefered it over the pandemrix. I didn't even realize I had it after I received it as no red, sore arm and no side effects. If you can get it I would recommend you getting it now. My daughter who is 19 months old has been diagnosed with swine flu. To be honest, its not as bad as people made out to be, she only has a high fever and very lethargic. This is the third day now and she seems better just on calpol. But its up to you, I had celvapan and was fine. Hope that helps

Emmysmummy · 21/01/2010 09:54

Brightredballon,

I've had a look at the link, and no it doesn't show the results. Unfortunately, data from clinical trials done by private companies such as Baxter are not published. They are simply passed to the governing bodies who have the power to pass the drug to the next stage of trial etc. Other companies in the same line of work don't have any more access to the data than the public do.

There isn't anything definitive that I can give you the link to about the reading i've done on squalene. I've simply read large amounts of literature on it (during bored days at work), and reached a conclusion that it has the potential to do harm. It is true that research on relevant groups of people has simply not been done yet. That is going on, over time at the moment.

I am not suggesting that i've ready that there's a specific reason squalene should not be injected into pregnant humans. The only conclusive research so far has been on pregnant small mammals, and their physiological responses certainly don't always transfer to those of humans. If they did, human clinical trial would not be necessary.

My personal conclusion, as a mum, was to have the vaccine that I don't see has any potential to cause harm, however may gaps are currently missing in it's research.

brightredballoon · 21/01/2010 12:59

mommymeggie sorry to hear your DD has swine flu, I hope she continues to recover well.

Emmysmummy thanks for your reply. I understand what you are saying. Out of interest is your child(ren) going to be vaccinated?

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Emmysmummy · 21/01/2010 15:24

brightredballon:

I honestly don't know yet. I'm not entirely happy with my daughter (20 months) or my new baby having pandemrix. I know that they will not be given a chance to have celvapan. I'm not overly concerned about the squalene in it for healthy non-pregnant people (and i'm not at all concerned about the thiomersal), but i can't help my mummy instinct to not do anything that might possibly cause them harm, however small the risk.

Right now i can't decide.

brightredballoon · 21/01/2010 15:58

Emmysmummy thanks for your reply. I am sorry to ask you so many questions but you are really helping to straighten this all out in my head! So you are not concerned about the potential long term affects that have been mentioned about squalene, why is it so different if you are pregnant and receive it as opposed to little ones? I have been worried about getting my two vaccinated with pandemrix because of the squalene but that is only because of reading that "potentially" it could have long term effects, I don't actually have any medical knowledge IYKWIM!

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Emmysmummy · 22/01/2010 11:15

Brightredballon:

Yes there are potential but rare long term side effects in healthy non-pregnant people based on varied auto-immune responses. It is only a hypothetical, but when carrying a fetus (in which squalene exits throughout its own body) there may be a potential risk of the antibodies formed by the mother to the injected squalene, attacking the squalene (and therefore the squalene containing cells) of the fetus.

I'm not claiming to be a medical expert about any of this, and i'm certainly not saying that there is evidence of this effect in animal studies, as as yet this hasn't been seen to happen in small mammals or indeed the vast numbers of pregnant women who have now been injected with Pandemrix. But I have to take a hypothetical into account when the safety of my baby is involved.

If Pandemrix had been the only vaccine available, and the pandemic had shown no signs of slowing, I most certainly would have taken the risk and had the Pandemrix.

Just to add, to anyone that has had the squalene containing jab, there has been research into the antibody forming effects of MF59 (squalene containing) adjuvant. These show that in the subjects studied, antibodies to squalene already existed at low levels prior to injection, and after injection, antibody levels did not increase.

Here's one of them from Clinical and Vaccine Immunology 2006:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16960112

This and similar research takes alot of the worry out of it for me personally, but as I said, I was offered Celvapan instead, so I chose that.

brightredballoon · 22/01/2010 15:18

Hi Emmysmummy.

I find your last reply really quite reassuring, you give a very balanced account of all this, thanks for being so patient with all my questions.

I have another {quetion}...... you have mentioned the MF59 adjuvant but isn't it AS03 adjuvant in Pandemrix?

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