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What do you think about Kinesiology ??

74 replies

crystaltips · 01/07/2005 16:45

Just been to a kinesiologist who pushed my arm up and down a bit and seemed to have my "body's woes" sussed ???
Just don't know what to make of it all
Thanks

OP posts:
MeerkatsUnite · 03/07/2005 15:19

All the public wants is safe, effective and efficient. They also want objective standards of measurement used to determine what is safe, effective and efficient. There is a general consensus as to what those standards are among scientists and rational people for most therapies. In other words, for most diseases and conditions, experts know what works, what doesn't work, what is unknown and what falls into a grey area - - what may work but the jury is still out.

Quacks makes them sound like ducks - if only that were true!!. Some of these people are downright dangerous to the fellow man.

FIMAC1 · 03/07/2005 15:31

MU

There a people who practice Conventional medicine who get struck off as they are dangerous to the public -

I have not heard of any cases of this in complimentary medicine.

HMB

Even if the tests are double blind - if they are sponsored, by lets say, Glaxo, they are not worth the paper they are written on

happymerryberries · 03/07/2005 15:35

Err, and not publised until they have been reviewed by a journal which has nothing to do with Glaxo. And medics will spot a non peer reviewed paper at 100 paces! And Glaxo's competitors will go through the paper with a fine tooth comb to rubish it if the possibly can!

So it isn't as simple as you are making out. Just try to get a paper published in the Lancet or nature, ot J Physiol....damn hard work

FIMAC1 · 03/07/2005 15:36

MU

I take it that you mean rational people - you mean you? If you are talking about a subject that

A) you have not tried? (or have you?)

B) you have not had results from?

C) you are unwilling to concede that it MAY have benefits and, actually work,

Then THAT is not rational

I believe in conventional and complimentary medicines/treatments and use both, with results

I would call that 'rational' as I do not totally rule out one over the other

MeerkatsUnite · 03/07/2005 15:51

I'm not talking about you or me here - I'm talking about the many people out there who get fooled by quacks. Quackery is not easy to spot contrary to public opinion.

Quacks urge people to disregard scientific evidence (which they cannot produce) in favor of personal experience (theirs or yours). But personal experience is not the best way to determine whether a method works. When someone feels better after having used a product or procedure, it is natural to give credit to whatever was done. Most ailments are self-limiting, and even incurable conditions can have sufficient day-to-day variation to enable quack methods to gain large followings. In addition, taking action often produces temporary relief of symptoms (a placebo effect). For these reasons, scientific experimentation is almost always necessary to establish whether health methods are really effective. Individual experience rarely provides a basis for separating cause-and-effect from coincidence. Nor can the odds of a treatment working be determined without following participants in a well-designed study and tabulating failures as well as successes -- something quacks don't do.

MeerkatsUnite · 03/07/2005 15:59

Under the rules of science, people who make the claims bear the burden of proof. It is their responsibility to conduct suitable studies and report them in sufficient detail to permit evaluation and confirmation by others. Instead of subjecting their work to scientific standards, promoters of questionable "alternatives" would like to change the rules by which they are judged and regulated. "Alternative" promoters may give lip service to these standards. However, they regard personal experience, subjective judgment, and emotional satisfaction as preferable to objectivity and hard evidence. Instead of conducting scientific studies, they use anecdotes and testimonials to promote their practices and political maneuvering to keep regulatory agencies at bay.

What most sets alternative medicine apart is that it has not been scientifically tested and its advocates largely deny the need for such testing. By testing, we mean the marshaling of rigorous evidence of safety and efficacy. Of course, many treatments used in conventional medicine have not been rigorously tested, either, but the scientific community generally acknowledges that this is a failing that needs to be remedied. Many advocates of alternative medicine, in contrast, believe the scientific method is simply not applicable to their remedies.

Alternative medicine also distinguishes itself by an ideology that largely ignores biologic mechanisms, often disparage modern science, and relies on what are purported to be ancient practices and natural remedies (which are seen as somehow being simultaneously more potent and less toxic than conventional medicine). Accordingly, herbs or mixtures of herbs are considered superior to the active compounds isolated in the laboratory.

FIMAC1 · 03/07/2005 16:11

Lets differ about Complimentary Medicine - my dd was in severe pain with the inside of her stomach ulcerated with the food allergy she had - I cannot thank enought the Kneisiologist who diagnosed she was allergic to all boving products - and still is

The results of her ommiting them from her diet meant that she was not curled up, fetal like, in pain, after eating them - she no longer needed the cocktail of medicines that the Doctors had given her in hope that they would cure her (they didn't) she simply cut out all dairy, beef and gelatine and she was cured

The Knesiologist found this out - the blood tests which mirrored her findings lagged behind and finally arrived with the consultant when her misery was thank goodness, a thing of the past

You sound like you are talking from a medical journal - I have proof that it works (and blood tests results to back it up)

crystaltips · 03/07/2005 19:01

my Kinesiologist said that i have Fibromyalgia
What's this then? I have looked at NHS Direct ... but doesn't shed any light.

I am giving my Kinesiologist the benefit of the doubt and will see if the stuff she gave me works ( SHe said that I sould be better in 6 weeks )

OP posts:
happymerryberries · 03/07/2005 19:04

Musculoskeletal pain and tiredness

happymerryberries · 03/07/2005 19:05

It can often go away with time. I had it not that long ago, and it has gone away, sore muscles do given time. I didn't have any treatment other than pain killers when it was very sore. Do you have sore muscles?

crystaltips · 03/07/2005 19:07

Yup - lower back has a dull ache but the hip and elbow are sharp pains ... bloomin sore

OP posts:
happymerryberries · 03/07/2005 19:08

Mine was in the shoulders, painful but not serious and as I said went away without treatment. Lots of things do, and the 'therapy' gets the credit

MeerkatsUnite · 03/07/2005 21:35

Fimac1,

As I originally wrote we shall indeed agree to differ. I just have wider ranging concerns re the whole issue of quackery but if you believe it works then great.

Just don't get me started on ID cards .

With best wishes

Meerkats

FIMAC1 · 03/07/2005 22:31

Oh no - I love the idea of ID cards

We Lived in the US and it works there - no underage drinking, it was great

Anyway - about Complimentary medicine - which you seem to like to refer to as 'quackery' most of which has been around for a lot longer that Modern Medicine (that is why it is called that)

Hopefully time will prove you wrong - lots of studies are being done which are positive in regard Coplimentary methods and are being used along side Modern medicine in cases where it cannot diagnose/treat illnesses

QueenZebra · 03/07/2005 22:44

No underage drinking in the USA? Er, Fimac, I think you live a very sheltered life...

My brother attempted to drink one ounce of vodka for every year of his life for his 16th birthday (this is in California, in 1974). He passed out before he made his goal. My parents even thought it was funny when they found out afterwards....

My SIL was quite pleased when my niece came home drunk a few years ago and threw up all over herself. SIL wisely left niece to clean herself up the next morning. Niece (very prissy) was cured of ever over-drinking again, but only turned 19 a few weeks ago....

FIMAC1 · 03/07/2005 23:18

OK OK it was a totally sweeping statement - but ID cards are checked EVERYWHERE if you look under 30, The legal age of drinking is 21

Obviously this is not 100% foolproof , Jezus....

What I am saying is that they are a good idea in theory. When I drank there it was a very pleasant experience, as the medium age of the other drinkers was 25-30'ish - as in no kids

Of course this will be abused and

happymerryberries · 04/07/2005 06:46

There was another sweaping stateent . Just because a treatment has been around a while it doesn't immediatly make it safe or effective. In some parts of India it was traditional to pack the vagina of a post partum woman with cow dung to 'purify' her. It often gave her the leathal tetanus toxin.

Pre 'modern' treatments for heart disease involved using unknown amounts of digoxin from foxgloves. We now use the same chemical but in a known and pure form

MeerkatsUnite · 04/07/2005 06:58

Er Fimac,

The average US citizen does not carry an ID card!. Congress keeps rejecting the idea of same as such a scheme would be unworkable. They mainly use their driving licence as picture ID to prove age. Only around 8% of all American citizens have passports.

Re the "alternative medicine" camp I have wider concerns about therapies claimed to help "cure" cancer, MS etc. There is evidence out there that people have been seriously harmed by such "treatments".

MeerkatsUnite · 04/07/2005 07:06

Many "alternative" approaches are rooted in vitalism, the concept that bodily functions are due to a vital principle or "life force" distinct from the physical forces explainable by the laws of physics and chemistry and detectable by scientific instrumentation. Practitioners whose methods are based on vitalistic philosophy maintain that diseases should be treated by "stimulating the body's ability to heal itself" rather than by "treating symptoms." Homeopaths, for example, claim that illness is due to a disturbance of the body's "vital force," which they can correct with special remedies, while many acupuncturists claim that disease is due to imbalance in the flow of "life energy" (chi or Qi), which they can balance by twirling needles in the skin. Many chiropractors claim to assist the body's "Innate Intelligence" by adjusting the patient's spine. Naturopaths speak of "Vis Medicatrix Naturae." Ayurvedic physicians refer to "prana." And so on. The "energies" postulated by vitalists cannot be measured by scientific methods.

Although vitalists often pretend to be scientific, they really reject the scientific method with its basic assumptions of material reality, mechanisms of cause and effect, and testability of hypotheses. They regard personal experience, subjective judgment, and emotional satisfaction as preferable to objectivity and hard evidence.

BadgerBadger · 04/07/2005 10:57

Homeopathy is available on the NHS, acupuncture is used in NHS surgeries, as is Reiki. Aromatherapy massage is used in NHS cancer clinics. Medical professionals now often recognise that osteopaths and chiropractors can provide good treatments to at least aid the conventional, if not better it.
Why? Because they work!

I still think that the issue of the provision of safe and effective treatment is due entirely to the individual provider. There are as many untrustworthy GP's as holistic therapitsts, if not more, IME.

QueenZebra · 04/07/2005 13:48

I was dead chuffed when I got carded whilst in California in recent years... usually because I am with DH, and he really has been under 30 yo all of these visits!

I had the impression that it's quite tolerated here for anybody to get durnk in public is it actually legal? In much of California you can't drink alcohol in a public place has to be private property or a licensed premise. You can go to jail for drinking just sitting on a park bench, etc.. That could be why you don't see under-age drinking so much in the USA, not the actual carding tradition (draconian penalties if under-age drinkers are found in a bar or otherwise manage to buy alcohol) -- otherwise I support the carding, actually.

Kinesiology -- I had a friend swearing by it 18 years ago.

FIMAC1 · 04/07/2005 14:47

Yup! I loved being carded too! Its like, someone thinks I look under 30! Yessss! Sad I know but it used to make my day

We are bringing in the no alcohol drinking in public places (£500 fine iirc?) - as I have noticed signs on lamp posts - start of a general intolerance by the Labour Government to the problems caused by drink, in the UK. I am sure more laws will follow - Happy hours for instance and 2 for 1's are being banned

crystaltips · 04/07/2005 21:58

mmmm - didn't mean to open a can of worms .... most of the arguments have gone way over my head tho

OP posts:
Trentsider · 07/09/2018 21:21

Are you open- minded about things? Do you have any knowledge of this subject, or are you just talking off the top of your head?

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