Those with unvaccinated children at school/nursery - advice please.

[insnognito]

Ok, am regular here but want to keep my dcs' vaccine status relatively private as obviously sensitive subject. Ds had multiple health problems as a baby and so we delayed vaccinating him, always intended to vaccinate with some but have not done so yet. He is now at school. Dd has had some vaccines so far. I am just wondering, those of you with unvaccinated children in group settings, do you not worry for them? I am thinking particularly of Swine Flu at minute and how it penetrates the lungs more deeply, and whether ds should get a prevnar jab and a Hib jab. Does anyone else have the same worries?

bump

ds is partially vaccinated. He had the DTP and Hib/Meningitis but only the singles measles vaccine. Re swine flu - not especially worried in relation to his vaccine profile, though obv concerned like most parents. Am hoping that the fact that he was bf will offer some protection. He seems to fight off illnesses quickly so hope his immune system is quite robust.

Thanks. There is just increasing info about SF causing bacterial pneumonia, and much of that being streptococcus pneumonai strains, some of which are in the Prevnar jab. Would you consider it?

DD is totally unvaccinated and is now 7.

To be honest , no I don't worry.
I think her immune system is much better now it is maturing. her asthma is becoming less and less of a problem.

I can't vaccinate her unless I see an issue where there is a very very great threat of her catching the disease and a rate of adverse outcomes which is also very high.
That is not the case currently with swine flu.
Of course she could be one of the unlucky ones but I can't parent based on what may just happen. I have to treat her according to the most likly outcomes.
I obviously review it and if the incidence increases and the rate of severe adverse outcomes increases then we would re think our current decision

Thanks Pag. I just read some stuff on emerging discoveries about the way SF is working on those who are gravely ill - and it is causing bacterial pneumonia in many of those. I know at present those who get very ill are a minority, but it is so hard to track the true nature of the virus, it is so over-diagnosed, so am wondering if getting the Prevnar would be a good thing, even though ds is 5. I wouldn't otherwise.

I wish I had that certainty Leonie, but as it is so hard to get unbiased research either way, I'm not.

I read an interesting and compelling study that concluded Hib vaccine raised the risk of Diabetes quite considerably [of interest to me as already in the family]
here
But a look at the responses queries the validity of the claim. It is so bloody impossible to know.

Did you access the full text for that, OP? Because from what I can see, it's only a research letter to the BMJ eds, it is not a properly peer-reviewed bit study. So I can't see any evidence that the research methods or statistical techniques have been properly undertaken.

And even if the full study has been published somewhere, it appears to be just one study. You can't conclude anything for certain from just one study. There is insufficient evidence of a link is the conclusion of the AAP.

I have read the full study. Will try to find link. the problem is you cannot prove there is no link to an increased risk in diabetes from one study either. That AAP statement concludes there is insufficient evidence at this time of a link. That just means more research is required.

Did you say you had had SF Riven? Your dcs were ok? Must be a worry.

1999 CDC study that found no link between HIb or Hepatitis B Vacc and incidence of Type 1 diabetes.
2001 study failing to find a link.
Detailed critique of Classen et al.'s body of work.
What you really want is a proper meta-analysis, though.

Ironically the study that claims a link between Hib vaccination and diabetes concludes the best way to avoid the risk is to vaccinate at birth!

Will try to find it.

On the contrary Leonie, I suspect it is a bigger deal than it is being made out to be, but lots of people who think they've had it haven't had it at all. But maybe I'm a pessimist!

That is interesting peanutbutterkid, thankyou. It is tricky though, isn't it? I would feel better if a proper meta-analysis had been done.

of course I worry because complete certainty with regard to children is a rare commodity, but on balance I have never regretted not getting them vaccinated. I honestly believe their immune systems are wonderful and finely balanced, and that they function better unfettered by the demands vaccination place on them. I also suspect many of the auto-immune disorders have a link to vaccinations.

I do like the immune system working uninterfered with idea, and I think it has some mileage [antibiotics are criminally overused, and I think vaccination is a holy cow whilst other ways of preventing illness are overlooked] However, I also remember that people of my grandparents' age and even my mother's, were unvaccinated, and many of them died of vaccine preventable illnesses, and yes, nutrition is very important but can't prevent all illness, so I find myself very, very torn. Especially as we have a host of auto immune illnesses in our family, and strong evidence we react very badly to vaccines. I find it an impossible issue to navigate. Am I the only one?

Hmm yes but wild measles suppresses the immune system as well. Imagine getting wild measles and SF at the same time, that would be calamitous. I know about the Hib vaccination suppressing the immune system for a week after, but that is a very short time compared to the pay off, possibly.

Wild measles does not suppress the immune system.. I don't think you quite mean this. Wild measles occupies the immune system so if you catch something else it is already busy. I think you mean this.

However as Leonie says if you vaccinate against other diseases now when you are worried about swine flu you are guaranteeing that your child's immune system will be occupied with something else if swine flu comes along.

Wrt to vaccinating against other diseases: don't forget that it doesn't just keep the immune system busy for a couple of days. That's why they are recommended for four weeks apart. A reaction to the mumps component of MMR for example can emerge over three weeks after the vaccine.

Safety of the swine flu vaccine is another extremely worrying issue and there are plenty of threads on this.
If I had autoimmune disorders in my family I wouldn't go anywhere near swine flu vaccine or any other.

"many of them died of vaccine preventable diseases"..

Out of a population of 55-60 million, one hundred died in the year before the vaccine was introduced in the UK a figure that was drastically down on the beginning of the century without vaccination.

We are told there is a one in one thousand chance of death with measles. And yet (from a pro-vax US website) "measles cases numbered four million per year before the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1964. About 450 children died." What's the truth?

It's hard because we are having to make a risk-benefit assessment without being told the truth about a. the risks and b. the benefits.

I hope you get enough info to make your decision.