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Suggestions for an ailing NHS?

83 replies

WideWebWitch · 10/05/2003 19:33

OK, following on from the state vs private health thread and the 'solving the crisis in state education' thread I thought I'd start a similar 'solving the crisis' thread for health, since Woozle asked me to.

I can see why people are seduced by private health care when the NHS service is terrible and treatment often depends on postcodes. For example, I couldn't have an NHS nuchal fold scan here but could have had I lived 50 miles away in the next health authority. As has been said elsewhere, the NHS doesn't have the facility to take money to perform this scan, had I wanted to pay them rather than a private clinic, so I paid a private clinic. I know, ideally I wouldn't have to pay anyone, I do agree. (Gilli, I did take your point on the other thread too, thanks for that).

So, any suggestions for improving the NHS? This isn't meant to be a thread for arguing about private vs NHS though - for that see the other thread under Health.

OP posts:
doormat · 21/05/2003 23:08

aloha

robinw · 22/05/2003 07:28

message withdrawn

robinw · 22/05/2003 07:31

message withdrawn

SueW · 22/05/2003 09:25

robinw - you wrote:

Doctors acquire arrogance during their training - whether taught it deliberately or picking it up by example.

I find it a bit difficult to agree with this statement. Some people are arrogant long before they reach the age of training for any job and others never become so.

docincognito · 22/05/2003 09:47

robinw... I'm (almost) speechless!

All Consultants have been Junior doctors, have put up with the sh*t, which mostly does not come from their Consultants. Arrogance is not something that is taught to doctors, it is an inbuilt trait that some people have. Yes, for some reason, it does seem to be more prevalent in surgeons, and men, but it is not universal. I'm really insulted!

Yes, some surgeons who have long waiting lists will be able to the same procedure in the private sector the next week. So what? Private practice is done in their free time! If the patient chooses to go private to jump the queue, does that make the surgeon a bad person? Are you implying that we deliberately keep the waiting lists long in order to fund our private practice? I've heard all that before, and its laughable! I would prefer that we didn't have a private sector at all, that the NHS could cope with all the health demands of the population, but it can't. The private sector is there, I see no problem with people using it if they want to. If they want operations, they must have surgeons to do them...I would far rather have a properly trained surgeon, who is subject to the regular educational scrutiny, appraisal and (forthcoming) reassessment, who also works in the NHS, than someone who can do what the hell he likes, because someone is stupid enough to pay him to do it. Cosmetic surgery is a prime example- did you see that Channel 4 programme recently? They had a girl, a single mother on benefits, who took out a bank loan to have a boob job, in order to get "glamour modelling" jobs. The photographer she went to see post surgery didn't think she had what it takes to be successful- so several thousands of pounds down the pan, and no way of paying it back! That surgeon should never have taken her money. It was criminal.

As for references for Junior doctors- well, I only give good ones. If I feel that someone is not suited to a career in surgery, I tell them. I try to make a reference as positive as possible, I know how demoralising it can be to have 10 interviews in a row, with no job at the end.

Our canteen does not have a separate area for Consultants, doctors or any staff. I wish it did. Last week, between clinics, I was eating my lunch, when a relative of a patient I had seen in the morning sat himself down at my table and tried to find out what we had discussed in the consultation. I have no idea where the patient was at that time, and doubted if he would have been happy to have his details discussed in public.I ended up having to leave my lunch, as I couldn't persuade him that it was inappropriate to accost me in this way. Nurses get this type of intrusion into their lunch and coffee breaks, too. We should have separate canteens for staff.
Of course, the managers, whose offices are not in the same block as the main hospital, have their own dining room, and have food sent up to them at lunchtime.

We could invite our manager to lunch (in fact next week we are spending a whole day with her, the Chief Exec, the Medical Director et al)but not much would get done in the half hour available. My point is that the managers job should be more shop-floor. If she was given an office in our department, rather than up the hill, and if we were able to interact a bit more we might see things improve.

I think a surgeon being injured by defunct equipment is actually a good reason to replace it.I would have been entirely justified in taking several weeks sick leave, but worked even with my hand in plaster. That doesn't make me a martyr, its actually less bother than trying to rearrange six weeks worth of clinics and lists. The NHS runs on good will, and for most of its staff it's pretty much run out.

As for new toys- the patients are demanding them! They come to clinics with articles cut out of magazines and newspapers, or found on the internet, and demand the state of the art treatment. If it is really state of the art, they should get it, but it is sometimes very difficult to persuade them that a new technique is not tried and trusted, and therefore not recommended for them. I recently went on a course to learn a new technique, which would make a certain type of operation quicker, enable the patient to be discharged from hospital sooner, with less pain and fewer complications. I'm still waiting to find out if I will be allowed the equipment. The managers can effectively dictate what treatment I give my patients, by deciding whether or not I can the euipment. Clinical freedom, i.e. the ability of a doctor to the thing that he or she feels best for an individual patient has gone out of the window.

That's enough for now

bells2 · 22/05/2003 10:22

My experience certainly hasn't been that arrogance is more prevalent amongst Doctors than in any other profession - quite the opposite in fact,

judetheobscure · 22/05/2003 13:25

Sorry, had to repond to aloha's post, but this will be my last post on IVF as the thread is about the ailing NHS.

Agree IVF is life improving not life saving. However, how many other procedures does the NHS pay for which have only 20% success rate.

I would suggest a two-tier system. For life-saving or considered essential medical care - no charge; for life-improving medical care- means tested or flat-rate fee depending on procedure.

On a personal note - my opinions are informed by my experiences. Before and after I had children I knew several couples attempting IVF and without exception they all found the time exceedingly traumatic. The success rate was low, relationships were ruined etc. I also know three cases of adoption, all admittedly pre-school age, and these have been fantastically successful. I had already decided before having children that I never wanted IVF. The fact that I am now blessed with a large family does not mean I am less entitled to express my views, nor are they less valid.

Please understand, that I am not against fertility treatment per se. I have every sympathy with couples who have difficulty conceiving. But I don't think IVF is an effective enough treatment to warrant it being freely available on the NHS.

Jimjams · 22/05/2003 14:26

robinw- I've never said that individual staff don't have compassion. What I am saying is that the NHS as an institution has no compassion as every single treatment has to be justified in terms of cost. It's compassionate providing you are "worth" treating. If not you can't get any. That's what I meant.

Our speech therapist that we see every 3 or 4 months is lovely and wonderful, she is compassionate, but the system that deems that my child isn't worth treating is not compassionate. That is what I mean.

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