Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

General health

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Continued support for SPHINCTER INJURIES, FISTULAE and other CHILDBIRTH INJURIES - the Ragged Bits Thread

952 replies

Jacksmama · 22/06/2009 20:12

Hi all,
old thread here.

Cyee started this thread in May 2008 after her op, and it's been a haven of support for so many of us who have injuries to our bits from childbirth. Especially with respect to sphincter injuries, fistulae and incontinence after childbirth, there seems to be such a lack of support for women, and the entire subject seems to be taboo. It's as if most MD's think that "a certain amount of damage is to be expected after birth and you just have to live with it". Well, that is simply not the case - and this attitude is unacceptable.

There are all kinds of Ragged Bits stories on this thread. Be aware that THERE IS NO "TMI" HERE - this is the one place where you can spill it all. If you read through the old thread, which is nearly full, you'll see that someone, somewhere, has probably experienced it - whatever it is! So don't be embarrassed or ashamed... we'll tell our poo stories if you'll tell yours.

And also - there are success stories here. Several of us who have been through the medical mill have been successfully "repaired" and are "fully functional", so to speak or even expecting again. In those cases, please join us for Pervwatch - the "after action" report for anyone who is once again venturing into marital relations!

Welcome everyone. We're sorry you had to find us, but we're glad you're here.

OP posts:
Jacksmama · 07/09/2009 15:47

First, congratulations on your DS.

I don't have first-hand experience of a prolapse in the early stages of pg but have very close second-hand experience, my best friend had it. In her case it was because her pelvic floor was shot from a horrible delivery with her first child. Her (new) OB was slightly more familiar with this sort of thing but said that he didn't see it very often, as, "in his experience, deliveries that are turning into clusterf*cks aren't usually allowed to go on long enough to cause that kind of damage before someone intervenes". I'd like to have any future babies where this guy practices... not that that's likely. But I digress.

Anyway, she had a pessary put in to hold things up until baby got big enough so her uterus couldn't fall down any more. And then she went on to have a C-section because her OB said her pelvic floor had been through enough. (I repeat my above statement - she said she adored this OB and I see why.)

Did you have a bad delivery with your first?

My delivery with DS was horrific (it ended in forceps and massive tearing) and while I didn't have an outright prolapse, my cervix was hovering pretty close to the opening for a few weeks. What a horrible feeling. It felt like all my insides were going to fall out any second.

You must be feeling like absolute crap. I'm so sorry. I don't have any practical advice beyond keep doing your PF exercises. It probably does feel like it's getting worse because as your uterus shrinks down it fits into the pelvic outlet better and probably makes it feel like it's right there ready to fall out.

Are you breastfeeding? I was told that the hormone relaxin, which helps your ligaments soften and the pelvis spread in preparation for delivery, is present in the body until 6 months after you stop nursing. Which slows down recovery from a prolapse.

It's so hard to talk to people in RL about this, isn't it? Anyway - I'm glad you found this thread but sorry you had to, if you know what I mean. It's been a lifeline for me and a lot of others.

(((HUG)))

OP posts:
Jacksmama · 07/09/2009 15:53

DoomBar - just saw your post. Oh my dear - that was exactly what happened to me. Exactly. I ended up having an op in Feb to have everything fixed - which it is now, mostly, but unlike you, I suffered in silence for months until I realized, ok, this isn't healing, I need a specialist.
My sex life was pretty shit for a year - I think we did it four times and that was with me gritting my teeth for DH's sake.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.
((((HUG))))

When is your appointment with the specialist?

OP posts:
Hulla · 07/09/2009 19:12

Oh Mellin & Doombar, congratulations on the birth of your dc and welcome - although I'm sorry you have reason to find this thread. ((((((((Hugs)))))))))

Doombar I could have written your post 7 months ago. Crying in RL, nobody understanding, pain, shock, upset mixed with the exhaustion of looking after a newborn (my first post is on the last thread under my old name LuluLulabelle).

It definately gets better. Definately keep up the pelvic floor exercises and try to rest when you can. JacksMama is a lot more knowledgeable than I am, I can only go from my own experience.

My internal and external sphincters were torn after prolonged second stage and forceps delivery led to a 3rd degree tear. However, they missed the internal sphincter tear so I have just had an op to try and fix the incontinece caused by that (I'll update later). I think it takes time to come to terms with and to get your head around whats happened to you.

You're right to insist on seeing a specialist now. My obstetrician wanted to leave me, despite knowing I had continence problems. She told me to just do pelvic floor exercises. Then they found the torn internal sphincter that all the pelvic floor exercises in the world wouldn't have healed.

I'd like to say that my sex life is back to normal but its far from it. Perhaps some of that is due to having a small baby...I suspect not really but it makes me feel a bit more "normal". I am going to have counselling before my marriage falls apart. DH and I rowed all weekend and he now sleeps on the sofa more than is necessary (to give me space he says).

When I arrived at the hospital one of the other more senior consultants came to see me after my consultant had left and was waffling about the procedure and said "I'll be supervising the operation while Mr Consultant is in the lecture theatre and don't worry, no one will see you face only your bottom and the equipment". After he left I thought about it and felt a bit worried they were filming the procedure so I asked a nurse and she confirmed that as my case was unusual they had brought a national specialist in to carry it out while my consultant had invited a lecture theatre fulll of doctors from across the north of Englad to watch the "Live Operation". I felt sick. I hadn't been asked for consent or even told about it. They had still managed to produce a nice programme for the delegates though! After telling 3 people that I didn't want to be filmed they agreed to turn the cameras off.

My op went well according to the consultant. The anaesthetist was great and considered bf when looking at my drug options. I ended up having it under GA anyway. It was expected that I'd just have a bit of a dull ache for a day or so afterwards and 5 days on I am still in a lot of pain. It's like a burning in my rectum/vagina and I am sure I can feel the lump of the bulking agent rubbing against my coccyx. I can't take the dihydracodeine they prescribed because it makes me sick and drowsy and I can't co-sleep/look after dd like that.

The procedure seems to have tightened my back passage but I no longer have any urgency so I only know I need pass stools when its coming out which is a bit too late. I hope this improves as the swelling goes down etc.

Lastly, I have requested my medical notes because I really need to know what happened, why they missed the rest of the tear and what my long term prognosis is.

Mellin · 08/09/2009 16:14

Thanks for the support ladies, but sorry that we are all going through similar.

Jacksmama - thanks for the information, how is your friend now? Did the prolapse return after the birth?
Ironically I had two very straightforward water births with no complications. I didn't notice a prolapse after my first, but thinking back on it now I think I might have had a minor prolapse because I had a feeling of heaviness and dragging IYSWIM... I just didn't recognise the signs at the time.

Hulla - How old is your DD? It must be difficult managing your recovery and a child. I can't believe they were going to film your procedure without consulting you first. All the best for your recovery.

DoomBar · 08/09/2009 17:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jacksmama · 08/09/2009 17:36

Hulla - I am absolutely that they were going to film your procedure without your knowledge or consent. That seems outright unethical to me. I'm glad your spot a stop to that. My op turned into a rather artistic "how are we going to get these puzzle pieces back together" type of situation but was done at a teaching hospital and on the Informed Consent form, it stated very clearly that students might be observing the procedure and that I might have student nurses on the ward. (I did, they were fab.) My surgeon told me after that there was rather a crowd in the OR while she put Humpty back together. I didn't mind. The more people saw what had been done to me, and how challenging it was to fix, the better. BUT I would have had a fit if they'd been intending to film without my knowledge or consent.

Mellin - my friend's prolapse never came back. Thank goodness.

DoomBar - I have urge incontinence too. Plus nerve damage. I can't quite tell how full my bladder is unless it's really full and I have to go-go-go. But my anal sphincter seems to have suffered - try as I might, when I really have to go, I can't quite keep a poo in. Especially if it's not solid.

The surgeon said that any nerve issue that persists longer than 2 years after the injury is likely to be permanent. [ angry] I sincerely hope she's wrong.

OP posts:
missismac · 08/09/2009 20:02

Doombar,

8 hours in 2nd stage!!! are you sure? Sorry to sound so incredulous but I'm so shocked. I thought that the most hospitals would let you go for in 2nd stage was 3 hours (usually 2) absolute max before moving to assisted delivery/ cs /whatever. Have you taken this up with your hospital? You must get your notes 'cos if what you say is true it sounds like serious clinical negligence. Can you say which Hosp this was so I can avoid ever working/ going there?

I'm truly horrified for you, you poor Love.

Jacksmama · 08/09/2009 22:08

My midwife "let" me push for four and a half hours in the second stage.

OP posts:
DoomBar · 08/09/2009 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jacksmama · 08/09/2009 22:43

I think a (((HUG))) is in order. And maybe some wine.

OP posts:
DoomBar · 08/09/2009 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jacksmama · 09/09/2009 00:02
OP posts:
Hulla · 09/09/2009 07:57

Oh DoomBar you do make me laugh. You sound exactly the same as me (except for the 8 hour thing - I pushed for just over two I think and then was taken to theatre for forceps and a bit more pushing).

Mellin dd is 7.5 months now and is was very hard looking after her at first but I think once the pain wears off you don't know any different and you just get on with it. Having said that, I was so ill after she was born I moved back to my mum's for about 3 months and had a lot of help there. I didn't leave the house on my own with her until she was about 3 months IIRC. My mum said it was how she knew I was ready to go home (poor dh doing 150 mile round trips twice a week to see us ).

I am struggling at the moment after my op though. DH took last week off to help but my mum took Friday so we went to mums (again) and my family helped with dd (I am struggling to carry her/sit and nurse her etc). My little brother said he'd help this week while DH was back at work so I stayed and dh went home. Then my brother decided to spend 2 days doing other stuff and I was left alone to look after dd for pretty much 48 hours. It was worse than if I'd come back with dh. I've returned home - at least I have dh first thing in the morning, at lunch time (he drives home) and after work.

Jacksmama they asked if I'd known in advance would I have given consent and I said I probably would have done, afterall it is a teaching hospital and doctors need to learn. I was just so upset that my consultant had been "meeting & greeting" his delegates before seeing me and still "forgot" to mention it. I think it just dawned on me that the reason he'd bent over backwards to help me (really short wait for surgery, very accommodating about bf (they got me my own room for the day and let dh and dd stay there while I was in theatre). I think he was just out to further his career and saw an opportunity.

Anyway, dh is off to work so I better go. Have a lovely day ladies (night - Jacksmama)

Cyee · 09/09/2009 12:10

Hi all,

Hello and welcome to our new threadettes! Glad you're getting into the swing (ie letting JacksMama ply you with alcohol). This is a flying visit (something called work calls) so apols if I miss out anything/anyone.

Hulla I am HORRIFIED you were nearly a Cert18 without your consent - holymoly! How are you feeling today? It is so hard with a little one, isn't it? They are full on when you just need the space to recover.

DoomBar - I would be surprised if your hosp could remotely justify you being in the second stage for that long. What a horrific experience. Hope you get to see a specialist soon - my problem was urge incontinence (plus in context of fistula which meant poo could come out of any hole it fancied) and I only get 'caught' very very occasionally now thank goodness. Are you seeing a physio to help with the pelvic floors? I definitely noticed more of a difference when I was taking through them with a physio. I did that alongside the various referrals, idea being that I'd respond/recover better from any op if my PF was in better shape.

Reading this last page of posts has really brought home (again!) how utterly crap this situation is. For crying out loud, babies are enough to deal with, without all this stuff. I know you probably don't feel it, but you should be so proud of how you're all holding it together when most normal mortals are in bits with just a baby to contend with.

((HUGS))

PS JacksMama - brill to have you back

kentmumtj · 09/09/2009 16:05

hi everyone and new posters

it makes me very sad to read your experiences as it can feel so unfair at times but i must say that it sort of makes me feel a bit better as i thought i was the only one with unusualy problems down below......how strange is it that i fond comfort in knowing i am not alone

anyways i am still awaiting my next appoitnment as they keep trying to fob me off with a different consultant and im standing firm i want my one after all he did the operation

oh and i got very tiddly last night whilst out with friends i managed to drink 2 bottles of wine all by myself .........'hic .......hic

Jacksmama · 09/09/2009 16:51

Holy cow kentmum - 2 bottles of wine!! I'd be under the table no matter how much of a boozer I seem to be online .

Cyee, how is your pregnancy going? I'm not sure if you've mentioned it but I'm assuming you're going to have a scheduled section?

OP posts:
kentmumtj · 09/09/2009 16:54

i was rather happy

and i followed it with nandos which was most welcome

it was a delicious rose

Jacksmama · 09/09/2009 16:59

Oh I love Nandos. Mmmm... peri peri Chicken!!

OP posts:
Hulla · 09/09/2009 18:13

Took DD with us to Nandos at the weekend. Spicy chicken wasn't as much of a winner as expected but corn on the cob went down well .

Oh kentmumtj what I wouldn't give for a nice glass of rose now....yum. Two bottles though? You're made of tougher stuff than me! I wouldn't be able to open my eyes type today if I'd drunk two glasses bottles. We've got beer in the fridge and a bottle of red in the kitchen. Wonder if I could drink beer in the bath?(DH has taken DD to the supermarket so I can bathe in peace). Hmmm...beer in the bath...classy.

Oh yes Cyee, I meant to ask if you were having a section too. Hope you're well & blooming(how far along are you now?)

Jacksmama · 09/09/2009 19:17

I personally find wine in the bath much nicer. That is, drinking wine in the bath. I don't know what wine in the bath would be like (a bit smelly?) but it seems a waste.

I haven't tried corn on the cob yet... but we're currently trying to exclude as much wheat and dairy as possible to see if it improves Jackbaby's acne-like rash, and fortunately we've discovered he literally Hoovers up quinoa. Loves couscous too but that's wheat-based .

Whoops, this isn't the BLW thread, is it?

OP posts:
Jacksmama · 09/09/2009 19:18

But neither is it the alcohol-of-the day thread so hey-ho...

OP posts:
kentmumtj · 09/09/2009 21:51

isnt it amazing a bit of alcohol and we forget all our troubles......... must say its been ages since ive drank like that probably a good few years ....... but it was fun i felt young, silly, happy and alive again
i didnt have a care in the world although ive had a very upset tummy today

i cant drink red or white as i get badly sick but strangley seem to be ok on rose

anyway
PERVWATCH
ive managed nookie twice now whoo hoo think dh is soooooo happy

ive been thinking about the op and what you said about having it filmed me personally here i would have loved them to have filmed my op as long as my face was never seen as i would have loved to see what they actually did.........right up to the bit where they passed the needle into there own finger

DoomBar · 09/09/2009 22:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jacksmama · 10/09/2009 04:29

Go ahead, you seem to need it more than I do right now... at least most of my troubles are in the past.

It's hard to believe things can be allowed to go so wrong, isn't it?

sneakily uncorks another bottle and finds a straw>

OP posts:
missismac · 11/09/2009 13:51

Dear Doombar, please lift your head from the bottle.

I live in south london too and my work involves me with the maternity unit of my local hospital quite closely. Could you unblock your private messages feature on MN so that I can ask you to send the name of the hospital privately. I'm really hoping that it's not my one, but if it is it would be good to know.

If you're complaining then it might help you to research the nice guidelines for the clinical recommendations for length of 2nd stage. The NHS expects all hospitals to adhere to these guidelines and so it may give you a sound basis for your complaint, if - as you suggest- there is a chance they won't take it seriously.

If it's any consolation (can anything apart from wine be a consolation?) it doesn't sound like you have a fistula, fanny farts are a common side effect of vaginal birth - it's because the vagina is bigger & looser than it was. I think with a fistula you leak urine and sometimes liquid feces too - the leaking would be pretty constant. Hopefully this is one prob you don't have!