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Continued support for SPHINCTER INJURIES, FISTULAE and other CHILDBIRTH INJURIES - the Ragged Bits Thread

952 replies

Jacksmama · 22/06/2009 20:12

Hi all,
old thread here.

Cyee started this thread in May 2008 after her op, and it's been a haven of support for so many of us who have injuries to our bits from childbirth. Especially with respect to sphincter injuries, fistulae and incontinence after childbirth, there seems to be such a lack of support for women, and the entire subject seems to be taboo. It's as if most MD's think that "a certain amount of damage is to be expected after birth and you just have to live with it". Well, that is simply not the case - and this attitude is unacceptable.

There are all kinds of Ragged Bits stories on this thread. Be aware that THERE IS NO "TMI" HERE - this is the one place where you can spill it all. If you read through the old thread, which is nearly full, you'll see that someone, somewhere, has probably experienced it - whatever it is! So don't be embarrassed or ashamed... we'll tell our poo stories if you'll tell yours.

And also - there are success stories here. Several of us who have been through the medical mill have been successfully "repaired" and are "fully functional", so to speak or even expecting again. In those cases, please join us for Pervwatch - the "after action" report for anyone who is once again venturing into marital relations!

Welcome everyone. We're sorry you had to find us, but we're glad you're here.

OP posts:
KellyKettle · 24/08/2011 10:15

Artificial anal sphincter could limit bowel incontinence

12:30 11 August 2011 by Andy Coghlan
Another milestone for custom-crafted transplants: the world's first lab-built sphincters. The breakthrough offers hope to countless people who have become incontinent through damage to their own anal sphincters.

The spare-part sphincters were made with some human cells, but have been implanted only in mice so far. Researchers made them by growing donated smooth muscle cells from human sphincters alongside gut nerve cells from mice in circular moulds.

"The smooth muscle cells align themselves around the mould in a perfect, continuous circle," says Khalil Bitar of Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center's Institute for Regenerative Medicine in Winston Salem, North Carolina. Bitar led the research team while working at the University of Michigan Medical School in Ann Arbor. "The neural cells then innervate this structure and make filamentous structures and projections around it," he says.

By testing the replacement sphincter with electric shocks and chemicals, Bitar's team made sure that it contracts and relaxes as a normal sphincter does to keep gut contents in or let them out. More importantly, it survived and grew when implanted beneath the skin in the upper back of mice. "It rapidly gets its own supply of blood vessels, and nerves rapidly connect with the mouse's own nervous system," says Bitar.

Scaling up

Bitar is now testing the system in larger animals. The team will also have to demonstrate that the engineered sphincters can function effectively when implanted in place of existing sphincters in the anus as a prelude to trials in humans, which they hope to begin in three to five years. For those clinical trials, the plan is to obtain smooth muscle and gut nerve cells from patients themselves, then grow these into replacement sphincters for implantation. "We can custom-make them the size and diameter we want," he says.

Bitar says that the sphincter he has made wouldn't replace the outer anal sphincter – the one healthy people control voluntarily – but the inner one, which operates involuntarily. Current treatments include reconstruction using muscle from limbs, electrical stimulation of sacral nerves, mechanical replacements and pumps – but Bitar says these are fraught with complications and failures.

"Successful development of a bioengineered physiologic internal sphincter would represent a distinct advantage over currently available mechanical artificial sphincters," says Robert Madoff, who researches colon and rectal surgery at the University of Minnesota Medical School in Minneapolis.

Those most likely to benefit from the new research are women who have been injured during childbirth and the elderly. Bitar says that the same technique could be adapted to make other important sphincters, such as those that hold in urine.

KellyKettle · 24/08/2011 10:18

Cristina thank you so much for posting about that. I have read the article (& posted below for anyone else interested) and it's made me cry. It's so amazing how science is advancing. Perhaps there is hope for me and other women without internal sphincters due to birth injury.

Thank you Smile

KellyKettle · 24/08/2011 10:19

Science is advancing in this area I mean - I suspect science makes advances everyday generally!

soapy4 · 25/08/2011 21:27

Hi kellykettle and ladies,

Thank you for all the support everyone, well at last im no longer crazy after going over my yesterday by Manager of doc surgery he told me.

The OB sewed my episomity and it broke down the OB seen my tear because it was circled in my notes and did not repair my 3rd degree tear, nor did the OB realize it extended into my rectum what I experience was to me worst than death I thought I was going to die in my sleep and there days wen I wished I did sori but that was how I felt.

Will keep everyone posted next week after when I see my surgeon

sillyworriedmama · 29/08/2011 23:06

hey... no news, just a bump and a hello

brighterdays · 31/08/2011 05:18

Hi,

I'm new here but am very excited to find you all. I have a 2 part story, but will talk about my anal fissures first. Hopefully this will help others and I would love to hear from anyone else with first hand experience.

As soon as my epidural wore off I knew things weren't right but it?s really hard to convince Drs when you're a first time mum. After some misdiagnoses and a couple of months I found out I had multiple anal fissures.

For those new to anal fissures here's a summary of what I've learnt:

  • they are tears in the anus.
  • they make passing wind and stools an EXTREMELY painful experience a lot like labour, as you re-tear the anus and continue to tear the area as your muscle goes into uncontrolled spasms.
  • pain is intense while going and continues for sometime afterwards - sometimes most the day to a lower level.
  • Drs cannot fix an anal fissure, they can only provide treatments that assist the body to heal itself by doing things that relax the sphincter muscle.
  • keeping stools soft is essential to eventually healing, but a soft stool does not at all mean no pain when you have an anal fissure :(

Treatments
Rectogesic ointment is applied locally and is a temporary muscle relaxant. If you don?t see any improvement in a week or two get back there straight away to try something else.

Botox injected into the sphincter muscle to relax it for 2-3 months so it has time to heal while the muscle is relaxed was my next step.
The pain was insanely worse for the 1st couple of days after the injection. But slowly it improved and just over 3 weeks later I had my first pain free day since the birth. Since then there have been some set-backs but on the whole it continued upwards (until now).

Physiotherapy has been really important too. I highly recommend this as you really need to be armed with ways to relax the muscle.

Pelvic Floor Exercises. Everyone tells me to do these but whenever I do I get a set-back with my fissures and so I stop. This time it has been a major set-back and my fissures are now back in full force and not going away. So my advice is just don?t do these!!!!!

Feelings
I cry a lot. Having to stop feeding my baby part way through a feed while I rush to the toilet and hold on to the walls in pain while my baby cries is sole crushing. Weeping uncontrollably wishing for my old pain-free life back takes me to very dark places. Suffering anxiety about leaving the house and shame about not having proper control over my bowels is depressing to say the least.
Having a beautiful baby smiling at me and a patient, loving husband keeps me going, smiling on grey days and gives me hope to keep trying.

What Now
Now that my fissures are back after trying pelvic floor exercises I?m booked to see the specialist about getting another Botox injection. And now I?ve found this forum I?m hoping it offers some extra support that I just haven?t been able to find anywhere else.

brighterdays · 31/08/2011 05:26

So part 2 of my story relates to my vagina (or lack there of). 7 months after the birth of my son my anal fissures had finally settled down and I was ready to try and have sex! How unbelievably exciting :) !!! But it just didn't work.
There was no pain but it was like there was a wall about 7cm into my vagina. My husband was very gentle and everything else was going well but it was just like a dead end. I tried tampons the other day and had the exact same problem.

So does anyone else have advice for me?

For now sex is back off the cards due to my anal fissures giving me hell again but I'm hopeful I can get them better again and then want to be able to have sex again, one day!

Also what is PALS? I've seen a few posts saying how good it is....

sillyworriedmama · 31/08/2011 20:53

PALS = Patient Advice and Liaison Service, your hospital should have one, very good for advice and complaints etc.

Sorry to hear about your troubles brighterdays I hope that your fissures settle again soon, I've had similar teeth-clenching breathing-through-it OMG is this a second labour?? moments when passing stool thanks to mine. Nothing like as bad as yours sound though, you poor thing. As for the vaginal 'wall' I suggest you make an appointment to see a gynae or surgeon (ask your GP to refer you) as it sounds like scar tissue may be a problem. I'm waiting to see what can be done about mine, which is more of a raised ridge (bloody painful though). There is lots of info on here about repairs which gives me hope... fingers crossed we get sorted soon!!

soapy4 · 01/09/2011 06:10

Hi brighterdays I also hope you get sorted soon that sounds horrible I have a 4th degree tear and im getting a repair and a colostomy this month yuk the pain we are in is horrible what we have suffered is so unreal and all from childbirth if only we were told the drawbacks of labour things could be different there are many ladies in the same situation here and they are very helpful.

sillyworriedmama · 04/09/2011 22:33

:( threads gone v quiet... I hope everyone is well. I have a question if anyone who has had a fentons or other anterior repair is around to answer it, I have been given some things to think about by my consultant - believe it or not, my DH and I did want to ttc this year. Clearly it's been v difficult because of the pain. However, she said to think about going ahead anyway (by hook or by crook!) as we would have to wait a fair while before putting the stress of a pregnancy on the newly repaired area post surgery.

Has anyone had a repair then been pregnant again? Did the pregnancy put stress on your new scar? How long did you wait? Did you have a 'normal' delivery afterwards or an ECS? don't know whether to push on for a repair now, so that we can DTD without it being such a trial, or do what the last consultant suggested and think about going through a second pregnancy and waiting til I don't want more children to have a repair - basically getting the whole lot fixed up in one go. Sounds scary, and like they would expect further damage from a second delivery which would either undo a repair, or make my current issues worse.

All in all it's easier said than done to wait for a repair anyway. I am not in constant pain, but it's like tiny stabbing pains in my fanjo, which come and go every day. Getting in the mood for DTD is hard enough as it is when you're exhausted from watching a toddler but when you are also likely to hurt if you get that far... well, I guess you all know what I mean, otherwise you wouldn't be on this thread :( Advice and morale boosting would be appreciated. Cheers

KellyKettle · 05/09/2011 12:31

sorry, I haven't been back to the thread much. Have mostly been MNing from my phone which is a nightmare on this thread.

sillyworried I am not quite in the same boat in that I have had some degree of repair done which is tiding me over but my consultant suggested going for the big one pre-pregnancy and then only CS afterwards.

I am very keen to avoid CS (although I know many prefer ELCS after birth injuries) and so have asked to delay any further surgery and to be looked at once my family is complete.

My consultant was very relaxed about this (he's lovely) and said that was fine, I can see him when I want to. My loose plan is to have this baby in a few weeks (hopefully in a birthpool with no further damage but who knows), wait a couple of years to see how everything tightens back up (assuming symptoms not worsened by birth) and then go for the last repair op.

Stabbing pains in the fanjo - yes, I had those. Dreadful, jolt you in public so people end up asking if you're ok etc. They have gone now and I think they just went with time. I did do lots of pelvic floor exercises to improve everything down there and perhaps that helped but I generally felt like time was the best thing.

How old is your DC? It was 18 months before I enjoyed sex again post birth and 2 years before my symptoms settled right down. I don't say that to make you down hearted if you're a long way from those milestones but to say that there could still be time for improvement.

KellyKettle · 05/09/2011 12:33

p.s. this pregnancy has been fine, I haven't noticed any changes in my body/scar/additional pain etc. I have had an easier time than my last pregnancy really.

I had expected my continence to worsen but its been fine - though I do have about 7 weeks to go so there is time I guess. Fingers crossed...

sillyworriedmama · 05/09/2011 22:19

hey kelly

thanks for your reply :) It's good to know that you have the confidence and the patience to see this pregnancy through while waiting for a repair, and that the pain has subsided with time. It's also nice to know that not all consultants are a*holes! Well, I know they aren't all horrible I just seem to have come across a few high and mighty men who have dismissed my concerns, which has left me a bit touchy on the subject... fingers crossed for the new one!

DS is 14mo now, so not too long to go I hope til some improvements are seen. Still, it's been a good 20months or so since I actually had a good time with DH, poor love! He's very patient. I think that I'm feeling particularly funny about it lately as some of my first time mummy friends have started announcing second babies on the way, and I can barely remember having sex, let alone being in the ttc boat - despite wishing we were. But I also don't really want to only DTD to conceive you know, it would be nice to have some time for me and DH! God I sound like I'm sex mad lol. I'm really not, I just feel a bit abnormal right now I suppose.

The continence issue is very encouraging - it's worrying thinking about all that extra weight, but I'm sure that dilligent pelvic floor exercises help! Good for you keeping them up :) I'm looking for some pilates classes online tonight to see if I can find some at a decent hour, so I can work on my core stability. I def didn't do the kegals very often while I was up the duff before. No time like the present to get started again!

sillyworriedmama · 05/09/2011 22:21

('all that weight' being a baby growing of course, its a bit of a pregnancy fear of mine that my bladder will be squished right past the point of holding it in!)

KellyKettle · 06/09/2011 00:46

Haha yes, I've had that same fear! So far so good though!

Yea, ttc was my big worry at first and it caused a few stresses with dh who wasn't impressed at the idea of ttc, getting pg and then not having sex for another year or two.

Fortunately, although I have zero libido in this pregnancy, it hasn't been like that. Our relationship, how tactile we were etc improved overall so I think that helped.

A friend of mine who had dc1 two weeks before I had dd had given birth to dc2 before we'd even had sex again Smile.

Jacksmania · 07/09/2011 00:16

Just wanted to pop in and see how everyone is? I nearly fell off this thread again.

sillyworriedmama · 07/09/2011 22:41

hey Jacksmama, I'm doing ok thanks, still waiting to hear when my new referral appointment will come through. I have birth afterthoughts booked to come back in two weeks to talk through my notes and give me my own copy of them, as I've asked for them to be released. I'm slowly working through the emotional stuff but just really want to be speeding up the decisions around will they/won't they repair me yet. It's so frustrating waiting... but it's been over a year, a few more weeks won't kill me :)

haha Kelly - yep my DH has been very unimpressed with the idea of being pregnant/celibate again! He def wants another baby, just not all the drama. I had SPD severely while pg and needed constant help to walk, including crutches etc so it would all be quite an effort but I only have to look at DS to know it was worth it in the end. I hear you on the tactile stuff, I do think this journey is making us closer, even though it keeps us apart in some ways. I knew a girl at my new mums group who fell pg again 4 weeks post birth. OUCH! I was and still am horrified/impressed by that!

shazza40 · 12/09/2011 15:11

Hi Ladies ive been posting on posterior-or-anterior-repairs-TVT-rectocele-and-all-the-other-down-below-stitchups thread but its been suggested ladies on this thread might be able to help me better. Well its been 7 weeks now since my Rectocele Repair Operation which was done transanally and im feeling exactly the same as before the op not going for a BM for a few days and when I do go im having to strain and the feeling of it been stuck etc. Im doing everything that ive been told to do, eat fruit and veg and drink plenty of water, I even took some laxative the other day with no effect. I dont no what to do now. As anybody had the operation done the same way as me (transanally)? Ive been back to see consultant for my post op and he has discharged me. Its frustrating thinking I went through all this and it might not of worked. Any advice I would be very grateful.

sillyworriedmama · 12/09/2011 19:44

Hi shazza I'm afraid I have no advice, only sympathy, as I'm pre-repair at the moment and don't even know exactly what the consultant will decide to do yet (but probably a Fentons). I hope someone more experienced comes along soon, but I'm afraid the thread has been awfully quiet of late so in the meantime, welcome! I hope things improve very soon.

soapy4 · 14/09/2011 14:04

Hi no news as such how is everyone

loobsie · 08/10/2011 23:06

hi everyone, may i join ye?

i had second baby 11 months ago. i was told at the time i had a 3rd degree tear. took me a while to come to terms with that and agonised form onths over whter or not i should ttc again, and if i became pregnant how i should deliver next baby. anyway, since dd2 was 3-4mths old i started to have incontinence issues. urine probs resolved, but i still have minor faecal incontinence. i have staining after each bowel movement for the remainder of the day. its embarassing and frustrating. long story cut short, i wasn't happy with WHY i was having these problems and went to see pelvic floor specialist. he referred me to physio. at a 12 weeek review, he discussed my hospital notes on the birth of dd2. this was 2 days ago andhe confirmed i had in fact had a 4th degree tear! i am so emotional now. i'm being referred to colorectal surgeon for exams to assess level of damage. am so annoyed with hospital and gp who never told me from day1.
can someone please tell me, does it ever get better? the staining issues i mean.

Jacksmania · 09/10/2011 17:10

Hi Loobsie, welcome to the thread! Just to let you know, it's not one of those fast-moving threads most of the time, but most of us manage to check in on a regular basis to see how everyone else is.

I had a 3rd/4th degree tear and had some incontinence issues for about two years after JB was born, but I never had staining after a bowel movement. No help to you, sorry :(

Of course you're emotional and annoyed. The fact that you had a terrible injury was kept from you, perhaps unwittingly (maybe they thought you knew how bad it was?), but regardless, still kept from you. I'd be furious.

Good luck with the referral, do please keep us updated so we can (virtually) hold your hand for your appointment. ((((HUG))))

loobsie · 09/10/2011 23:34

thanks Jacksmania, in a way i'm glad its not a fast-moving thread! Smiley face

i do think it was unwittingly kept from me by all - maybe! i was told in the hospital on the day of delivery and the following day when gynae came to speak with me i had 3rd deg tear as result of 50% sphincter damage. the brith notes clearly stated "greater than 50% external sphincter including tear to internal sphincter and anal mucosal were torn and sutured in theatre". a copy of this report was sent to my gp where i was checked every 2 weeks for stitches and repair. still nobody informed or corrected me every time i said "3rd". i even discussed at length my fears of a 4th deg tear - with anyone who would listen!
my dh has booked me in for counselling because i've been inconsolable since i was told only 3 days ago. i know its not going to affect physical healing but i feel like a secret about my body was kept from me for nearly a year.

sorry for long post. thank you for checking in xx

Jacksmania · 10/10/2011 04:57

We tend to have long posts on this thread because often this is the first safe place for anyone who's had a horrific birth injury to really let it all out. Long is good - it means you're getting it off your chest. :)

Cheers to your DH for booking you into counseling. What a lovely man. This isn't anything you want to try to get your head around all by yourself. You're reliving what happened after your baby's birth, and grieving an ongoing situation with new and shocking information. Help with that sort of thing is good!
Please let us know how your appointment goes!

loobsie · 10/10/2011 21:58

thanks, i will do. am kind of reluctant to go because i really don't want to dredge it all up again. i'm going for my hubby's sake because he's trying to help.

so whats your story do you mind me asking? :)

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