Continued support for SPHINCTER INJURIES, FISTULAE and other CHILDBIRTH INJURIES - the Ragged Bits Thread

[Jacksmama]

Hi all,
old thread here.

Cyee started this thread in May 2008 after her op, and it's been a haven of support for so many of us who have injuries to our bits from childbirth. Especially with respect to sphincter injuries, fistulae and incontinence after childbirth, there seems to be such a lack of support for women, and the entire subject seems to be taboo. It's as if most MD's think that "a certain amount of damage is to be expected after birth and you just have to live with it". Well, that is simply not the case - and this attitude is unacceptable.

There are all kinds of Ragged Bits stories on this thread. Be aware that THERE IS NO "TMI" HERE - this is the one place where you can spill it all. If you read through the old thread, which is nearly full, you'll see that someone, somewhere, has probably experienced it - whatever it is! So don't be embarrassed or ashamed... we'll tell our poo stories if you'll tell yours.

And also - there are success stories here. Several of us who have been through the medical mill have been successfully "repaired" and are "fully functional", so to speak or even expecting again. In those cases, please join us for Pervwatch - the "after action" report for anyone who is once again venturing into marital relations!

Welcome everyone. We're sorry you had to find us, but we're glad you're here.

you're not doing my head in at all!! I wouldn't post if I didn't have time etc

How long until your appointment then? Hopefully you'll be given a proper plan of action then and you can start to look forward.

How are things with your DH?

Thanks kelly kettle 3 weeks to go for appointment dh and I are not gr8 and he resents the fact of minding his dd due to hosptial blunder and he has not got a single clue of what to do with dd so this is on my mind also nobody can help him on that one he is not one bit interested and iresent the fact I have to leave dd with dh as he has not got a single clue this will be very deal with then on going into hosptial and coming home I cannot lift her for 6/8 weeks the house will fall apart these this injuries are so sad and some woman actually become quite knowable when dealing with a problem for so long thankyou

Soapy, I agree with KK that you need to go through your notes with an obstetrician to explain to you fully what happened.

I just looked up PALS - I wish we had something like this here.

Soapy just a quick message as I'm packing for a weekend away in the rain

If you don't want to speak to your GP about counselling again you can call these:

www.sheilakitzinger.com/birthcrisis.htm

I called them and found it immensely helpful. The person I spoke to was actually a very senior midwife in her day job (they volunteer for the helpline) & she gave me fabulous advice which I followed & which was still reaping benefits for me 12 months later (without giving you the long story).

I think it is extremely common for birth injuries, especially those which result in incontinence, to impact your close relationships. My own marriage struggled for a long time and my DH is quite frightened that we will regress to that again after this baby is born. He says I just wasn't me for a long time. I remember laughing at something he said about 12-18 mths after the birth and DH looked at me and said "there she is, there's the woman I married" and we both cried. It is so hard and I fob say that to excuse your DH. It's hard to navigate these feelings without professional help.

Would he go to counselling? Is there anyone else who can come and look after you after surgery?

Hello everyone, another one with a ruined set of bits here.

I had DD 14 months ago, I was made to give birth on my back, was terrified of tearing (actually I think I had tokophobia, the idea of giving birth repulsed and terrified me), and I sustained a 3rd degree tear.

I had a perinearraphy (sp?) 9 months ago, as the original tear had healed with a 'tunnel' through the scar.

Sex is still painful, it's a sharp sort of pain that feels as if there is no stretch in the flesh, and as if it's ripping. The pain is internal, at the front. Me and DP had sex the other day (we've only managed it a handful of times since DD's birth), and my perineum was really sore when he tried to enter me. We can only manage insertion if I'm guiding him really slowly and tentatively. Our sex life is unrecognisable, it's really nerve-wracking and I'm on the brink of tears the throughout.

I feel if anything were to happen to our relationship or DP that I could never have sex with anyone else again.

Since the birth I also have a large anal skin tag that means wiping after the toilet is ineffective and I need to shower. I suffer from urge incontinence with urine and with stools, they don't 'fall out', but once I need to go I can't wait. I find it upsetting but I think I'm starting to accept it.

I suppose what I'm asking is, how long will it be before I return to normal? How long before I can enjoy sex? I'm still seeing a gynaecologist, who says the next step would be referral to a pain clinic.

Anyone had an anal skin tag repaired? My doctor told me the recovery is long and painful and the surgery best avoided, but I feel totally damaged down there.

I've had PND, my HV thinks I had PTSD. I'd like another baby but will never ever have a VB again.

Sorry, that's turned into a bit of a ramble.

hello all... I just want to say, welcome sleepless (but as the others said to me, sorry you had to find us!) and thank you kellykettle for the link. Soapy, I hope it all improves soon. I know the emotional stuff is the hardest for me too.

I had a bit of a melt down tonight, I was talking to a friend about my work situation (departmental review, changes to all our job descriptions, lack of consultation in a nutshell) I was getting really anxious/upset about not being talked to. I realised when we talked that actually, I have been overreacting to work, and totally underreacting to the bits business. I was so matter of fact at my last examination when I got my surgery referral, but in reality I feel frightened, angry, so sad and well, violated. The birth trauma has hit me again and I realised that actually I really haven't dealt with it at all. I'm going to PALS and have this friend (a senior ward nurse in her day job) coming with me to the surgical assessment for support now. It's the feeling of being so worthless, ignored and utterly value-less... that's how the birth/pregnancy made me feel. I refused consent, and my friend with her nurse hat on said that arguing with me, while I had no pain relief, until I agreed (for somewhere between 45mins and an hour and a half - my notes should have that in there) was tantamount to torture. She thinks I actually have a case for litigation on that alone.

I don't really want to bring a case against the hospital, but I have to assert myself through this next stage, if only to get back some kind of self-respect and sense of worth. I AM grateful my baby is well, and was born well. But I am not grateful that they hurt me, ignored me, and belittled me in the process. I just don't know how to express it to the people who matter. Just talking about it tonight made me cry and cry. Maybe I need counselling, I don't know :( but burying it and pretending it's normal to not have sex (we've tried 5 times in total since I was 6months pregnant! DS is 13mo!) is not ok. I too want to know how long it takes to heal, not just literally, but as a person. At the risk of sounding like a stroppy teenager... I feel like wailing its not fair!!

Thanks kellykettle for the link at my last visit to the hosptial 3 mw were there one with a torch one looking one writin and asking stupid questions was I part of a freak show??? i felt sick then was offered a colostomy bag wtf I had just had a baby like everybodyelse we feel violated and alone

Hello silly. You're right, it's not fair at all. We expect our lives to change when we have a child, but we don't expect that giving birth will render us incapable of having a meaningful sex life, perhaps indefinitely.

I had a debrief with a gynae consultant (no issue of incompetence/malpractice for me, thankfully) to help clarify a few things about the birth. It was great in that it filled in some memory blanks, but because my birth was pretty normal (apart from the damage I sustained) it made me feel a bit of a fraud for feeling upset. Hearing back that the midwives had noted that I was 'distressed' almost as soon as my waters broke and that I asked for pain relief straight away made me feel embarrassed and that I wasn't brave enough.

I hope your PALS session provides some answers, and I think it would be very helpful to have your friend there. I'm not a litigious person either, but I would also be considering bringing a case, for the reasons you describe.

Our babies are about the same age, it's a long time to have a ruined sex life, isn't it?

How do u use the smileys list to post a smiley lol sori

Hello people

I don't know if this is the right thread, I might just put up a new one about external piles. I had posterior repair two years ago, went well, but because I had the rectocele/constipaton for so long I have ended up over time with really bad external piles.

Anyone else have this problem? I can find a lot more info on the net about internal piles. Mine are really really bad, v unsightly. Since I had the last op I have separated and stbxh is with someone else. I've met someone nice but I can't face the thought of being naked with someone new, maybe ever. Feel so depressed.

I feel like my life is ruined. Only solution I can see is haemorroidectomy which is supposed to be utter misery to get over and I just couldn't spare the time. Anyone got any experience of any of this?

I'm going to put up my own thread I think. Great sympathies to all the ladies on here. I feel like I had the front done, and now it's going to have to be the back. If only I'd followed consultants advice and had CS. DC2 was 5kg. I've had nothing but problems for 9 years.

Hello, have been lurking... my tale of woe (which I know is NOTHING compared to many here).

I had a 2nd degree tear with birth 6 months ago. Two doctors were shining a lamp up there debating whether it was 2nd or 3rd degree, so I guess it's at the worst end of a 2nd degree tear. A MW with a bad attitude did the stitching, it was agony and she kept complaining that I wasn't still enough. I was losing blood, so a DR came to check on me, saw her stitchwork, and said I needed to go into theatre to have her stitches taken out, and to have it redone under a spinal block. This was done.

3 months later, it still hurt. I couldn't really kneel or squat, and no chance of sex, so went to my GP. Got referred to a consultant who said the stitches had healed well, but had left a skin bridge at entrance to fanjo. I'm having a repair op next week where he will cut, restitch, and apparently refashion (!). He will also take biopsy for lichen schleurosis which he noticed at my consultation.

In the last 3 mths, things have got better. Even managed sex and a tampon (separate occasions!) - it just hurts at the entrance, iyswim. Aches if I'm active in the day, but is so much better that I was tempted to cancel the op. Will go ahead really, as better it's fixed in case any more DC/long-term damage.

My questions are: how long will it take to heal, do you think? ANd will it be as painful as post-birth? I assume not, as won't have pushed out a 9lb-er! will I get the chance to have a chat with the surgeon (mainly about whether he'd refer me for an ELCS with any future kids!)? and is it worth lodging a complaint about the MW/surgeon who stitched me the first time round? Or is it just a 'that's what happens sometimes' thing?

thanks

unchange I'm on my way away for the weekend but I had to post to say bad treatment should never go unreported IMO. Rough treatment, insensitive attitude and restitching are not just how things are - it's very much how we're conditioned to think about how we can expect to be treated in labour.

Imagine if a relative told you they'd been treated like this when going in for a routine op. No anaesthetic? No respect from staff? Treatment done twice?

Complain!! If nothing else it's good for your recovery!

Promise to reply properly to all posts when I'm back next week

Have gone thru liaison service to request name of evil mw. Then the complaint will go in!

Hello UnChange, I'm sorry to report that the pain from the reconstruction op was worse than after the birth, but I think that's probably because I was just taking paracetamol, rather than Voltarol.

Let us know how you get on with chatting to the consultant. I was a bit disappointed that when I told the consultant that I could only consider another baby if it was ELCS he didn't immediately agree with me.

I can't answer the 'how long to heal' question, as I'm still not fixed (had reconstruction in Nov), still have pain during sex. It's definitely improved though.

Definitely complain, I've no idea why MWs think it's OK to stitch with just gas and air.

Hi. I am new to this but have just spent a couple of hours reading all the messages and the previous thread. Finally been confirmed today that it i highly likely I have a fistula as a result of 3rd/4th degree tear (undiagnosed at time of bith) as well as previously diagnosed sphincter damage.

Quick rundown of history:
Home birth with first dd 3 years ago which was going really well until foot popped out - midwife, nor local hospital picked this up 2 days prior to birth so no CS offered. Delivered naturally in hospital after blue light transfer (ambulance took 25 mins to arrive and then didn't know the way!) with episiotomy. Post natally I picked up infections, couldn't sit etc and in a lot of pain. Dismissed by pretty much everyone. Hospital lost swab results showing infections present which delayed treatment by 3 months. Various courses of antibiotics followed.

Couple of months later started to get faecal incontinance, wind problems and awful pain in groin leaving me unable to walk. Saw (and dismissively dismissed) by gynae consultant then saw physio who couldn't place the pain. Given painkillers which helped with groin but other symptoms ignored. Incontinance got really bad 18 months ago and saw GP who sent me to colorectal team for more investigation. Diagnosed finally with sphincter damage 2 years later but still noone suggested fistula - no idea why, as symptoms were mentioned clear and plain in my notes at every meeting from Nov 2008. Told to go ahead and finish having family before doing the repair work.

Went ahead and had 2nd dd in April 2011 by CS. (Anyone who is worried about having one - don't be. Elective CS was a complete dream and recovery was much better than I imagined it would be).

My questions are a) how does the recovery from repair surgery for fistula and sphincter compare to cs recovery eg timescales?
b) any tips on living with a stoma for someone with young family?
c) has anyone had successful compensation claim relating to these injuries?

Finally...phew... so glad to have found this thread. It has given me hope and a sense of relief that I haven't been going mad thinking I am the only person with this.

hey sleepless yes it is a long time. I think DH is a saint!

Welcome flitterfly and unchange - no advice I'm afraid as I'm new as well to this thread, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon with some helpful words!

I took the advice of my nurse friend last night and wrote down my own recollection of the birth for PALS. I didn't think I'd have much to say... 5 pages later...!! Seems I remember a lot. Mostly about being humiliated, degraded and ignored. It was actually very cathartic to let it all out. Thinking about the details, what room I was in, who spoke to me and what time it was, has been very helpful. I am getting a bit more clarity. And the more clarity I get the less scary it is to complain, or in fact, to think about having a second baby. I know I would have elcs if I did (would insist) so there is no way I could experience the same problems again.

I think maybe now DS is older, I have finally allowed myself the energy to be upset as well. When they are tiny you just can't let go like that - at least I didn't let myself.

Waiting for Tuesday and the appt with the surgeon, and nervous as hell but trying not to project. An answer is better than not knowing if anything can be done. (I hope!)

am feeling very down today. I have stinging pain around my anus, and episiotomy scar, and internally. Its just constantly there and I vary from frustrated that childbirth has caused this to absolute panic that maybe something else is wrong and I have some kind of infection that hasn't been picked up (unlikely I know, but the mind goes into overdrive!! Keep being told to try canestan, but seriously, that's not working) but more than anything I just want answers. I want the discomfort to stop. It makes me really irritable and withdrawn, I don't want DH to touch me (I mean at all - let alone intimately) and get cross over nothing. It's always at the back of my mind, making me feel miserable, somehow unclean (again, I don't know why it should make me feel like that, but it does. Maybe its just that deep down I'm a prude about bumholes) and upset. I know I have to hang in there until Tuesday, but it's like now that I've taken action to sort things out, I'm even MORE aware of the problem. Is that normal?

flipperfly,

Hi im also was wondering are you having a stoma?? as you asked about it im having one next month with a spincter repair and my dd will be only 6 months old and im totally terrified and I have a ds

btw sorry dodgybum, I didn't mean to ignore your post - welcome! I'm not sure about piles, but I hope someone more experienced comes along soon to help out :)

Hi Soapy4. I have to undergo an investigation under general anaesthetic in a few weeks to find out the severity. Stoma has been suggested which can give an extra 10% to the success rate. Really can't handle the thought of having one for 6 months and also really scared by the whole prospect of op and recovery. My two dds will be 3 years, and 10 months.

Oh flitterfly I really feel for you it is horrific I know im horrified I was left with an opened wound and going to the toilet over it sick and I was in agony going to the toilet now I know why I still cannot sit and am left with a straight scar from from to back going to docs tomorrow hav booked a half hour to go over my notes and he can hav a look then he will see why I cannot sit and he is the manager whom seems to have more knowledge on this im going to ask to be his patient he has alot of compasssion for his patients why does my consultant think sudacream will help? is she blind now I have long painful periods now which I never had before.

Can anyone tell me does the old scar tissue get removed whilst surgery is being done im scared what if the wound opened up again.

If I need to do a bowel well no operation will happen I cannot go even pee properly im in agony take care ladies

so... no news really. The consultant I saw today has just referred me back to my GP and to a consultant obstetrician instead. She says the possible repair needs more investigation, and to look at my waterworks and bowel too before they make a decision, so I'm playing the waiting game again. No idea how long it will take to be seen by someone new.

She was v. nice about everything though and did say she would refer me to someone at a smaller, different hospital, because I am so anxious about going back to the huge one I gave birth at. She said I need to be looked after by someone consistent, trustworthy and sensitive, who would advise me properly about any future TTC issues/possible elc options etc. We do want another baby (DS is an only child at the mo) so the repairs have to be done with that in mind. At the mo I can't bear the thought of another vaginal birth so am v. happy that she thought an elc would be perfectly logical (if we ever manage to DTD and reach a place where we can ttc that is!!).

I felt like a bit of a weed as I burst into tears when she asked me about the problems I am having but at least I got it all out in the open, and she didn't write me off as a 'hyper anxious' patient like the stupid doctors I've seen before (how can scarring be down to anxiety anyway??). Praying that waiting lists don't mean it's Christmas before the next doc even has a look down there... really wanted to be 'fixed' by the new year. I have visions of it taking a year to get anywhere at all...

hope you're all doing well ladies x

Hi all. Not a regular on this thread but it was in active convos. There's an article in the latest New Scientist about research into an artificial sphincter - I thought it might make some interesting reading. (I know most injuries aren't in need of that.)

Thanks Cristina do you have a link?

www.newscientist.com/mobile/article/dn20784-artificial-anal-sphincter-could-limit-bowel-incontinence.html