Continued support for SPHINCTER INJURIES, FISTULAE and other CHILDBIRTH INJURIES - the Ragged Bits Thread

[Jacksmama]

Hi all,
old thread here.

Cyee started this thread in May 2008 after her op, and it's been a haven of support for so many of us who have injuries to our bits from childbirth. Especially with respect to sphincter injuries, fistulae and incontinence after childbirth, there seems to be such a lack of support for women, and the entire subject seems to be taboo. It's as if most MD's think that "a certain amount of damage is to be expected after birth and you just have to live with it". Well, that is simply not the case - and this attitude is unacceptable.

There are all kinds of Ragged Bits stories on this thread. Be aware that THERE IS NO "TMI" HERE - this is the one place where you can spill it all. If you read through the old thread, which is nearly full, you'll see that someone, somewhere, has probably experienced it - whatever it is! So don't be embarrassed or ashamed... we'll tell our poo stories if you'll tell yours.

And also - there are success stories here. Several of us who have been through the medical mill have been successfully "repaired" and are "fully functional", so to speak or even expecting again. In those cases, please join us for Pervwatch - the "after action" report for anyone who is once again venturing into marital relations!

Welcome everyone. We're sorry you had to find us, but we're glad you're here.

Hello all - I idly followed the link here from the Guardian article and I have been here for hours now, reading this thread.

I hope you don't feel that I'm being intrustive - it's just that I'm completely amazed by your stories, your compassion and your spirit. I've laughed and cried and felt immensely proud at the way us ladies can support each other through the worst things. I don't know if you've ever gone back and read the whole of this thread through but it's the most incredible story of both horror and bravery.

Anyway, enough gushing from me - I just didn't want to read and run because I think you are all awesome! My DH and I are thinking about starting our family and if I have anything like the support I've seen on here, I'll consider myself blessed.

I wish you all the very best for your ongoing recoveries and life in general.

xx

Im thrilled also that you are getting some well deserved recognition. Good on you chaps

Thank you both - if I ever have a spare day few hours, I will read the entire thread through again. For myself, I'd like to see if I've managed to move on from the bitterness of hating the fuckwits whose poor decisions caused me so much grief. I think I have... mostly...

This thread has been a sanity saver for me. As has MN as a whole, occasionally!

Jacksmama, how are you doing? Have you had your stitches out?

I had my appointment. It was v quick. Consultant had a 'quick look' and told me I have muscle damage, causing the rectocele, and a 'minor' prolapse. I don't think it's minor. I told him that everything is sort of ok when I'm lying down - has anyone been examined in any other position? When I'm sitting my cervix feels like it's almost coming out. Before childbirth, most doctors couldn't even reach it, they had to use an extra long speculum, so the difference is significant. Initially he wants me to go for physio, and if that doesn't work, go back to him and discuss surgery.

I don't understand how physio can help the tear in the muscle wall. And I should have asked more questions, but I just wanted it to be over. So, more waiting now for the physio appointment, and maybe I can discuss it all with them.

Dr did pull some of the stitches, he could only reach the very poky ones and said the rest would have to dissolve b themselves, but ohhhh, it already feels so much better,
thank you for asking :)

I thought I had a uterine prolapse, too, because to me it felt as if my cervix was an inch away from the vaginal opening. A pelvic floor physio can help you strengthen all the muscles that make up the pelvic sling, which includes a muscle called the levator ani. And it does what it sounds like - lifts up the anus. If it's weak, you'll have a rectal bulge.
My pelvic floor physio also told me that there would be no way to completely ascertain the extent of permanent damage until 6 months after I'd finished breast feeding, as BFing continues to stimulate the release of minute amounts of relaxin (which helps to loosen everything in preparation for birth). Jackbaby is nearly three and still occasionally nurses for comfort (getting, I'm sure, nothing but droplets :o). So we'll see what happens eventually.

How's everyone else?

Hi all, I hope no-one minds if I join in? I saw the Guardian article, funnily enough, the day after I visited my consultant and was upset over being told I needed cesarian births for any future babies. I've been on Mumsnet for a while, but never thought of searching for other people with birth injuries.

My DS1 is 7 months old. He was 10lb 14oz and no-one knew. Delay in the second stage resulted in a forceps delivery and I also suffered a 3rd degree tear. I don't know if he got stuck, no-one has ever really de-briefed me properly and I was too out of it to understand the explanations I was given at the time. I'd like to request my notes at some point.

The healing went badly wrong, I lost several stitches and had a lot of infections, which left me with granulation tissue that was irritated almost constantly and caused me a lot of pain. I couldn't walk properly or stand up for about 3 months after the birth. Most of the granulation tissue was removed with silver nitrate treatment and I have a tiny amount of it left, but my consultant has said I have a lot of scar tissue that is still sore on the outside as well as the inside.

I've been offered a re-fashioning if I'm not happy with the way it all looks, but I told my consultant I don't care about that - I just want things to function properly again first.

I was lucky enough to escape any bladder problems, but I have had problems with rectal incontinence. I'm not actually what you'd term fully incontinent, but I don't get very much warning when I need to go and it is a problem. I'm due to start back at work in February and I have to admit, I'm worried about how I'll cope with being in meetings or on a phone call.

Hi All,

I noticed no one replied to janiemouse's post about piles in July - does that mean no one else has this problem? janie if you are still there what happened? I am booked in for banding in a couple of weeks and am terrified - was it really worse than childbirth?

DC2 is almost one now and I thought they'd be gone by now, I guess they are a tiny little bit better, maybe in another year and when I stop BF they'll be fine. If banding is hideously painful and only works for a few weeks anyway then I'm not doing it!!

Any advice welcome (and as janiemouse said I know this is small fry compared to some people's problems, hope no one minds, just nice to find a place where things like this are talked about!)

flyby, I did actually reply to janiemouse's question about haemorrhoids... I know I did... only now that I've scrolled up to find my reply, it's not there . V. odd.

Anyway - I've had very painful haemorrhoids (they were the size of large cherries right after I had DS - now I know where the term "arse-grapes" comes from, sorry, crude, I know, but I read it on MN somewhere and had to in a sort of "yuck, but I get it" way. They did eventually shrink, and I was left with skin tags, which aren't very pretty, to say the least, but occasionally they flare up. I was offered banding but decided not to do it, because the flare-ups, which used to be frequent, are now only occasional, and also, having just had another op on my perineum, I'm done with any surgical procedures down there, at least for the time being. Once I fully recover from this, if they flare up again on a consistent basis, I might have them banded, but not right now. I talked to a couple of people who'd had banding done and they said it was uncomfortable, but definitely manageable with adequate pain killers. And worth it in the end. (Ha ha, pun not intended.)

Sorry - Bubble - I meant to reply to your post as well. I had rectal incontinence too, for a while. It does get better over time. The last episode I had was when DS was 18 months old, but I hadn't had any problems for several months before, it was just a case of me waiting too long to run to the loo.
I still occasionally get very little warning, and am still anxious when I have diarrhoea - I tend to stay close to the toilet in that case, but it's mostly fine now. (DS will be three in Feb.)

What I found helped was sort of "training" myself to go to the loo at the same time each day, in the morning.

If your DS is only 7 months old, it may take a while longer for your pudendal nerve to settle down. I was told that whatever incontinence and pain issues I was left with would likely not improve past two years post-partum. I think I disagree with that. I wasn't very happy with where I was when DS turned two, but there definitely been more improvement in the last year.

Hello.

Wow, what a supportive bunch you lot are. I hope you don't mind me lurking and now posting?

Had some minor bottom-related trouble after having DD four years ago, but since DS was born (9lb2.5oz, with an off-the-scale-large bonce), I've had problems - retocele and a minor prolapse.

DS is nearly ten months and I've been seeing a urogynae physio for about six months. Things have got much better, but only to a certain point.

I'm really interested in what you said JackSawMamaKissing... about breastfeeding slowing down healing - my physi (who is fab) keeps hinting that I should stop if I want to improve things further. But I don't want to.

Anyway, will go back and read the thread in more detail to see if I can pick up some tips (or help anyone with my experience). What fun this is!

Just to clarify (I might have repeated it wrong) - I don't think my pelvic floor physio, or the research I've done on my own, was trying to indicate that breastfeeding slows down actual healing of wounds, only that it seems to stimulate the continued release of small amounts of relaxin, which keeps tendons, joints and ligaments looser than they would be in someone who isn't pregnant/ breastfeeding.

My PFP (pelvic floor physio) seemed to think I'd nurse for 6 months and then quit, which is why she kept saying "in a year, everything will be better". I'd just nod and say nothing, thinking, "yeah right". (I have to say, now I would probably tell her that I was planning to BF until Jackbaby was done (which, to digress even further, he seems nowhere near... at nearly three... sigh...) and I wouldn't give a fig for her reaction. But back then, I hadn't found MN yet :o.)

OH MY GOD.... I am a blooming Guardian reader as well!!!!

ARGH!!!!!!

Will come back and read/reply later.

ARGH!!!!

Why is that such a bad thing, Cyee?

(Remember I'm an ignorant furriner :o)

No - I mean I can't believe I didn't see it!! :) It's the one day last week we didn't get it.

I confess.. I just had a little cry. Brought it all back and feels nice to see it covered.

Showed DH.. he's proud of us all... cried again.

You ladies are amazing :)

Back properly to read after I have some food.

Welling up... god I think I'm about to have some kind of post-ishoo meltdown.

I am also a Grauniad reader, Cyee. Not a bad thing

Thanks for your take on the breastfeeding thing. My physio keeps saying hopefully, "Well, once you've finished breastfeeding, everything will get much better." It's useful to hear it's not slowing the healing, just the hormones are possibly keeping things more relaxed.

Has anyone been prescribed a machine for nerve damage? I had to use one for the vagina - not much fun, but ok. Now the physio suggests I use it for the sphincter injury. Oh joy. Still, anything's worth a go, I suppose...

OK - fed, watered, emotions under control...

Hi everyone :)

TheOldestCat - my gynae indicated that breastfeeding keeps 'things' tender. So internal exams etc. were always pretty bad. For my second DD, I noticed the time it took to get back to normal much more (since I wasn't worried about all the other crap.. literally) and my scar was extremely painful during the deed - though now I've stopped (DD2 is 10.5 months) everything seems to be flowing again and tenderness has gone. I think it's about lubrication.

In terms of machines, I used the Ferraris, which was for the whole pelvic floor, but... ahhh.. administered (?) via the vagina. I found it useful. Made me quite competitive about my pelvic floors.

Bubblebobble - I had quite bad urge incontinence. When I had to go I REALLY had to go. That is much much better now. It really only happens if I've had a bit of a backlog and then things happen. Like Jacksmama I'm still very nervous if I have the runs.

TheBuggerofsuburbia - The gynae examined me on my back. Recto guy on my side. I completely know what you mean in terms of wanting to get out of there. Horrendous. I hope you get a good physio. Mine (North west) was brilliant and I did speak to her a lot, I really felt I could talk to her.

Jacksmama - delighted the removal of stitches has made a difference. Ouch. So nice to be back on here and 'seeing' you all :) Are you feeling the love?!

Catinthehat and cabbagepatchcheryl - thanks for coming to say hello. Nice to see you :)

I am not a massive MN'er. I posted on a few AN boards and asked a few questions about BF'ing before starting this thread. The injury changed my life in some ways and having the support of the women on this thread got me through it. Like Jacksmama I am going to go back and read through it. Though in my current state I better take a few packs of hankies.

Seeing the article today and speaking to DH about it has really taken me back, and I'm glad of that. I don't ever want to forget the situations we found ourselves in, nor the fact that I received such unbelievable support and camaraderie from a group of wonderful women that I've never even met.

I feel so fortunate to have had that support. THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!

Pass me some of those hankies, Cyee, if I get a chance to read back I'm going to need them!
I've had weeks days when I couldn't have gotten through without the support from this thread. Just to have someone who understood to talk to about all the horrifying details was a godsend. And what makes me feel sad is knowing that there are many women who have the problems we have/had and who've not a soul to talk to. :(

Thanks all for your replies.

How have people with rectal incontinence dealt with it on returning to work? I'm going to have to have that conversation with my manager soon, because he does need to know why I might suddenly have to run out of a meeting.

Any advice on the best way of approaching it? I work in the civil service and they are generally very good about making any changes needed.

Jacksmama - I know - grateful for my own situ. Really sad for others. I just can't imagine the utter isolation.

BubbleBobble - hi :) For me, the pelvic floors did help. I also noticed a link between what I ate and the more urgent episodes. Fizzy drinks do it for me - wind and poo wise. Are you experiencing it all the time or just sometimes?

I think Jacksmama mentions 'training' above. For me it wasn't that organised, but basically I could always 'bring it on' with a cup of good strong coffee in the morning. That gets/got me into a good routine so I get my business out of the way at the start of the day.

To this day I don't have great control on wind, esp if I need a number 2. So long gone are the days when I would avoid pooing at work. Anywhere goes.

I hope you see an improvement, or that you find a way of managing it that works for you.

I think I would just say to your manager, "Can I have a word with you when you have some time and we can be uninterrupted, I need to bring up an issue that's sensitive for me."

And then just lay it out for him/ her. I don't think you need to go into too much detail.

"I had a very traumatic birth that has left me with some problems. This is difficult to talk about and I need you to be sensitive to my discomfort. I have some issues with incontinence, and there may be times when I'll have to leave a meeting abruptly and won't be able to explain. If you like, I'll send in a note from my GP/ specialist. I don't really want to say anything beyond this - I'm sure you can understand that this is a devastating personal issue, and not something I want to talk about in great detail with anyone. Thank you for your understanding."

Very well put Jacksmama. Do you think you would feel able to do this Bubble? What's your boss like?

Thanks Jacksmama, that is helpful. I've been postponing my appointment for about 6 months now, keep phoning up and putting it off... maybe I'll just go for it this time. I thought I had a rectal prolapse, but they tell me it is just one very very large haemorrhoid, only shows itself when I poo, but takes some putting away again.

Will have to go and read the Guardian article, I think. I know my problem is a small one, comparatively, but I was very, very glad to find this thread, so if it is praising it and all of you, I'm in total agreement.

H all, may I join in? You all seem like a very supportive bunch

I had first baby, little girl in May. Was induced at 40+9 and everything was absolutely fine until the crowning. I suffered a 3a tear and had manual placental removal amounting to a huge blood loss. Baby was big for me, but not huge, 8lb 3oz. Was stitched in theatre but for weeks they didn't heal despite silver nitrate and copious antibs. Was referred privately to a urogynae and at 12weeks postnatal, I had a restitch and rectocele repair under GA. Didn't know Id suffered the prolapse until I came round from the op. This was nearly 17weeks ago now and have been told I have a "beautiful perineum" hmm. £2000 I really really did not have but I just couldnt bare not being able to sit down. Especially as I am a single mum after (soon to be) exH left me 4 days before I had her. I have since suffered fissures, piles and am currently on antibs for an infected cyst downstairs. Had horrendous problems with my periods. Feel like my bits, back and front, have been completely wrecked. Been told next time will be an ELCS which is just fine. I havent suffered any incontience per se, but needing a number 2 comes on VERY suddenly and I HAVE to go straight away. Movicol has become my friend because of the painful fissure.

Anyway thank you for letting me share my story. So nice to hear Im not alone xx