Private Health Care: a good or bad thing?

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OK, to avoid hi-jacking the education thread I thought I'd start this new shiny one! So, private health care, a great idea (if you can afford it) or completely unfair on the rest of society?

I refuse to feel guilty because I paid for my DD to have a private operation!

Should I have continued letting her "stop breathing" during the night (EVERY NIGHT) on principle? What if she hadn't rewoken herself to breathe? She would choke in her sleep to rewake herself to "remind" her to breathe - this wasn't once a night - it was many, many times!

She desperately needed help and I could afford to pay. End of story.

I didn't go private for the fancy hospital/carpets/nice curtains/better standard of care. I did it because she needed the operation and she needed it now.

As for more tax - yes we are already in the higher tax bracket - but paying more tax wouldn't necessarily go straight to the NHS! It would probably go towards refurbishing some Royal Property - disgusted to read that several Million pounds of Taxpayer Money went towards refurbishing the Queen Mothers Property - ready for opening to public! Now that really pisses me off!!!!

Jimjams, I knew that, think my post came out wrong. Lil there may be only a certain number of consultants to go around (although presumably some may give up if it wasn't for the lure of money from private sector) but that's not the case as far as beds, nursing staff and drugs like beta-inferon etc are concerned. The actual surgeon is only a small part of the equation as far as the NHS's various shortages and funding difficulties are concerned. Anyway, I never said private health was good for society, only that it meant less of a financial burden.

I thought so croppy- just wanted to make sure

sobernow- you do make a good point that we want the same thing. I think the thing I object to is the holier than thou attitude from people who have no understanding of what it feels like to not know whether your child will ever be able to live an independent life. If you read mumsnet you read about lovely moments like children saying "mummy I love you" or whatever. I don't know whether that will ever be a possibility for my son. All I am trying to do is allow him to reach his potential. Study after study shows that early intervention is an absolute necessity for autism. The governments own websites say that. And what do we get - nothing - no help at all. Any active intervention he has had has been paid for by us. Even portage- as that comes out of his nursery grant (so he can only attend 4 sessions- "normal" children can attend 5). So it sticks in my throat that I am then accused of contributing to a divisive society. What bollocks. I'm trying to do the best for my son- it doesn't mean I don't care about other autistic children. In fact I suspect I care a lot more than many of the people arguing against private health care- I hear the horror stories each day.

People might say that they or the people you know do not visit the GP for verrucas/coughs etc, but there are a heck of a lot of people out there who do! My husband takes off verrucas on a regular basis, thus saving patients a referral to a dermatologist for the same service. Most visits to the GP are for things which would clear up on their own if they were left.
I think that the NHS would work better if more resources were poured into primary care, so that people could access resources through their GP as happens here (where there is a great emphasis on primary care) - for example, following on tfrom the problems Jimjams has had - my dh's partner organised adn chaired a meeting on Monday to review services for an autistic boy who is a patient inthe practice. Through the practice (rather than hospital specialists or referrals) this boy has obtained access to SALT, OT, a specialist referral to an autism assessment centre, the practice has intervened on his behalf with the education services to get a classroom assistant for him and are now arranging behavioural therapy so that the parents and teachers can learn to anticipate and cope with his behaviours in and out of the classroom. If Primary Care was properly resourced throughout the country (rather than the money going to managers and building up more and more specialist centres) then children with complex problems could be helped far more easily.
I am a big fan of the GP service (and of the way my dh and his team choose to run their practice - they dont get paid for meeting targets e.g in vaccination but for providing a quality service) and wish you could all have it the way we do here.

I agree with you Lil and Sobernow,really good points.I find it sad that so many of us don't have a social conscience anymore.We have one of the greatest and enviable institutions in this world,the NHS,which we are letting go to pot by supporting private healthcare.Which will surely grow better and better,supply and demand.If we do not stick by our principles we are being selfish and I blame Mrs Thatchers tory goverment for this attitude.At the same time we cannot blame parents for wanting the best for their children as that is just the way things are at the moment.But it's up to all of us.Make the rich pay more taxes instead of paying for their private health care to benefit everyone.We can't even rely on Labour now they've turned into the tories.

I agree with Lil's point. When DS was 11 months old he had developed a granuloma on his face (near eye/nose) which was bleeding heavily and frequently including in the night. It had been misdiagnosed as a nevus. We had two trips to casualty. DH went to check on DS in his cot at about 9.30 pm and he was bleeding in his sleep. Packed him in the car and off to casualty, where his face was cauterised. After this I was setting the alarm at regular intervals through the night to check on him. PILs offered to pay for him to see a private consultant. Bit dubious on this one but bypassed my principles and rang around private hospitals. It was the same consultant at at least half a dozen hospitals and at least two NHS hospitals. But we would have had to wait at least three weeks for an appt. Meanwhile DH causd a fuss at the surgery and we got an NHS appt for that Wednesday with the op the following Monday.

So the NHS came out quicker in the end. How can one consultant possibly work at 8 hospitals? I certainly think that private work is taking the consultants out of the NHS rather than creating increased capacity within it. DS needed little pre/post operative care for a minor op - I provided the care.

Susanmt, I'm with you on this one, we live in a rural area of SW Scotland, not as remote as yourself as we have Dumfries and Galloway Royal Infirmary some 60 miles away. But, our local GP's do a lot of minor ops in the surgery, eg, warts, verrucas, stitching the list goes on. The out of hours service I only ever use if the kids have a raging temp that I have not been able to bring down in 6 hours, I have used this service several times, usually with DS before he had grommits put in place, and I ALWAYS have gone and met the GP on call at the local small Hospital, but, there are the select few who DEMAND the doctor visit them at home, and these people have cars!!
Our own GP's now use the Gendoc service from our local hospital, they are excellent trained nurses who reassure and give support to folk especially those with wee ones when they are unwell, and always get a GP to call back. I do support the NHS, the backbone of the NHS is the NURSES not the so called managers. The nurses are the ones who wash you, feed you, brush your hair, dress you, take you to the toilet, and CARE. These are the men and women who fed my granny everyday for 2 months because she was so weak she couldn't feed herself, can anyone imagine what she must have felt like?, I cannot, but these nurses washed and dressed my granny. Private Healthcare woldn't have been any different, apart from as Lil says, plush carpet, fancy curtains, state of the art TV, come one if you are unwell, who gives a shit about the decor in the room.

Lil, I think that it is a disgrace you had nowhere to lie down for the night, also this does not happen very often but I TOTALLY AGREE with what you are saying.

Bobbins, so you are of the opinion of the Scottish Socialist Party, Tommy Sheridan that Taxes should be hiked up for the more affluent members of society, I think not, as I could almost guarantee that it would NOT go into the NHS.

We faced a 16 week wait to see a consultant on the NHS last year. Once we had decided to see him privately, we saw him within 24 hours.

I am extremely pleased that we were able to pay for DD to have an op. Whether we could actually afford to spend that money in that way...... But I would, given the state I was in last year, pretty much have done anything (legal) to pay for it/speed it up. I would have sold our house, sold our car, sold my body. Yes I have to admit I even considered the 'Escorts wanted - £75/hour plus bonus' ads and wondered if I could just escort without the bonus work.

As I have already stated our daughter was cared for and operated on in an NHS hospital. We had the same (generally excellent) nurses, doctors, consultants, the same food (utterly vile), stayed on the same shared ward as the other children who were in there. We used the same grotty toilets, and the same dodgy shower facilities. No fancy carpets, curtains, etc. Our consultant said it was probably cheaper to use the NHS facilities but we didn't make our choice on price but on the availability of on-site facilities.

I'm not justifying anything btw. Just telling our story. I don't have to answer for how we spend our income to anyone - a point my family sometimes miss.

So Layla how would your social conscience help you non-verbal child speak? Please tell me - I'd love to know. Wish I was in the position to have some sort of social conscience. How dare you accuse me of being selfish for not sticking to my principals. It isn't me that suffers- it is my son. I will now write him off for the sake of principals - what utter bollocks.

Incidentally just been moaning to the portage worker about this sort of thing. She said that for "complex"- that word again- children the resources are not there. I know that.

Susanmt- I was interested in the "access to SALT". We have "access to SALT". See her once every 8 weeks. Unfortunately it's not enough for verbal dyspraxia (although it might be enough for autism) which requires SALT 5 times a week for 2 years or more. Otherwise it doesn't get better. I do as much as I can- I feel perfeclt qualified to give normal SALT- but I feel totally out of my depth with verbal dyspraxia.

Absolutely jimjams. A social conscience is easy when by following it you are not directly harming your child's future.

So Croppy,what about your grandchildrens future?
Jimjams,I wasn't going to reply or join in this discussion any longer after that.Personally I would rather have these kind of political discussions with a bottle of wine and friends.Seeing as I have come to respect you and your posts I wanted to thank you for telling me off a little too well and bringing me back down to earth.I would do exactly the same thing if in your position I'm sure of it.I personally don't blame anyone for going down that route as a parent myself your children are precious and I would happily die for them too."If" my DH would allow it as he probably wouldn't as he feels even more strongly than I do.I still beleive in my views and I am sorry they have upset you though.I will not join in on any more controversial discussions again.I do not like upsetting anyone.I do not have all the answers.And I still blame the government.
And Croppy I like to look at the bigger picture.

Well in most cases, securing your child's future also goes a long way to securing that of their children. In Jimjams situation, that is clearly the case.

Lil - agree that your experience was horrendous... and yes, I agree with you also that trained educated medical staff should be paid a decent wage - but if they can't earn a decent wage in the NHS why shouldn't they be allowed to top up their wages by also working privately?
Surely if they are prevented from doing so we will see a lot more people leaving the medical profession for good, not an increase in NHS staffing levels?

Yes, it is crap that we have a two tier system - but at least we have two tiers unlike most of the world.

Thanks Layla - and yes I blame the government as well.

Some of us are trying to change the system. We presented a "call for action" to the chair of the all parliamentry group for autism last year. He promised to present it to parliament, but seems to have forgotton to do so.

It's autism awareness week soon (12 May) so I need to fax some questions to my MP for Tony. I'm focusing on education.

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susanmt - is 1400 on the small size for a list? I think they are nearer the 1800-2000 mark locally.

Just picked up on the layla croppy conversation. Have to say I think croppy's right. Without intervention for ds1 I would say grandchildren were well and truly off the agenda!

And if I read one more some stupid government document saying how important early intervention is for autistic children and how without it they won't be able to live independent lives I think I will scream. If they stopped hosting committees and actually did something the situation might improve. AAaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhh

SueW - yes, 1400 is small, but they have one of the most dispersed group of patients in Scotland - his furthest patient is almost 90 mins drive away along little single track switchback-type roads.
Jimjams - the boy in questions gets SALT 3 times a week. I already thought that was good access, but after what you have said, I can see it is fab.
We always felt we were lucky to live here - now we are sure!

3 times a week!!!!!!! Right I'm moving. That's not access to SALT that is proper SALT. I don't know anyone who gets that!

Well I am now fairly livid so I am going to vent.

I have just heard from an aquaintance that their pre-school kid has a stutter. They rang SALT (they were known anyway) and SALT agreed that this is terribly serious and needs to be seen right away so they have an appointment next week.

I'm sorry- I know their child needs some help, but to totally ignore children who cannot talk at all - and who will not be able to talk at all without specialist intervention- and if you don't believe me type verbal dyspraxia into google and read- makes me mad! I know funds are limited- so what am I meant to do ignore ds1's needs because the NHS won't bother to treat him. I'll say it again- they have written him off. Am I meant to stick to principals and refuse to pay?

And another thing- I do far more for autistic children who can't pay than anyone sticking by their bloody principals. Unless you've all been faxing your MP's with questions that is.

robin w whay should the gps support nhs direct? i've always found them absolulety crap and they have always told me to phone my gp if i was worried (which of courde i was otherwise why would i use them) they told a friend of mine whose child had meningitis thet his rash "sounded like " nothing to worry about