Private Health Care: a good or bad thing?

[WideWebWitch]

OK, to avoid hi-jacking the education thread I thought I'd start this new shiny one! So, private health care, a great idea (if you can afford it) or completely unfair on the rest of society?

Perhaps if those who can afford to pay for private healthcare paid a higher proportion of their incomes in tax instead, we would all be better off.

For all those who paid for their kids to have a private operation let me ask you this. No matter how complex that operation turned out to be, no matter what your reasons for sending them private, don't you think you are priviledged to be able to send them for private treatment? What about those people whose children have the same complex conditions, but cannot afford to send them private so they have no choice but to use the NHS. If the NHS do not provide the facilities or the resources then their child suffers, perhaps even dies or their condition goes unrecognised.
How is that fair?

Completely unfair, because, we are suppossed to have such a thriving NHS according to our PM and his cabinet. But, put yourself in the position, your child need life saving surgery and you cannot get it for months on the NHS what do you do, because there are not enough Staff to look after the amount of beds and give the care required.

Claireandrich, the Dry Sheery?????, aha, me thinks you could have hod a wee sheery before looking here!!!

Croppy, yes - financially by placing your child in to the private sector you are lessening the burden on the state, but can't see how it makes any difference to waiting lists.

Re standards in private hospitals - yes, some private hospitals stink. So do some NHS ones. Like all things, it's a question of doing a bit of research - for instance, does the hospital have a permanent crash team? Some private ones do - some don't. Have to say though, I can't understand why anyone goes to the Portland or similar - if there are any serious problems you get shoved in an ambulance and taken to St. Marys!
Also, when it comes to emergencies, you cannot beat the NHS (except when I had acute appendicitis... lay on the floor in a&e for hours without seeing a soul, only to be rescued by our gp who had me admitted to a nearby private hospital and operated on just in the nick of time!)

If I had been able to afford to take Harvey to see a private Dr, perhaps his meningitis would have been diagnosed earlier. We will never know, it may well have turned out just the same. It just didn't even occur to me that he might receive substandard care through the NHS. I would hate to think that he died because of underfunding in the NHS. I'm sure this did have an influence though. We should all be able to take for granted that our children's health will be treated fairly and equally regardless of our income.

I would imagine that a lot of those who have private healthcare already do pay a higher proportion of their taxes.

Soupdragon> of course they do, but obviously not enough if you ask me.

I think for me the big pitfall of the NHS is the postcode lottery aspect of it. I must live about ooh, six miles from Bells, I suppose, and had a first nuchal scan on the NHS at 35 and have been offered them for subsequent pregnancies. It makes me very sad that depending on where you live you might or might not get beta-interferon for your MS or access to SALT for your child. I know NICE is making inroads into this, but not quickly enough in my view.
My experiences of the NHS have all been positive, but unlike others on here I have yet to experience the service failing an elderly relative or a child. I am sure that if I faced such a situation in the future I would consider private healthcare, just to ensure a quick initial diagnosis and quick surgery/treatment if needed. In the meantime, I appreciate everything the excellent staff have done for me at my local hospital, and am happy to stump up my extra NI contributions to fund the NHS better.

Rhubarb - it isn't fair, life isn't fair.

But if your child and mine had the same problem and needed an operation and we both waited for NHS treatment & mine got it first ....... you knew that I could pay for it ..... wouldn't it be 'fairer' that I pay for the treatment so that your child got the NHS treatment first. Sorry, I know that's making it over simple but that's why I am prepared to pay - I am lucky enough to be able to do so.

Croppy - I still disagree that private education & private health is the same - hopefully, private health means a 'one-off' treatment - private education is much more long term.

Rhiannon - this a problem that many 'older' people seem to face, they just won't use their money to pay for comforts in their old age - my MIL was the same, she could have been very comfortable in her last few months but refused to spend her money .... now we have inherited a nice lump sum - but so what, we would have much rather she had enjoyed it herself. DH & I will have no qualms about spending our money to care for ourselves in our old age - if that means nothing left for DS - so be it (of course the sad reality is that we will be spending MIL's money !!)

I would pay for Private Health care for my family to speed up treatment. I don't think the care anybody will get on the NHS is substandard!! And to think that you get a superior level of medical treatment privately is niave and arrogant.

I would purely go private if I wanted an Op/Treatment etc faster not better than the NHS can provide.

I don't see any relationship between Private Education and Private Health Care.

oh Rhubarb that argument stinks. I am simply trying to get some treatment for my child. Of course I care about the children who can't access the private care which I why I spend some of my spare time campaigning for better services for all the other children who have been written off, and telling people about charities like BIBIC.

At the end of the day I have to answer to my child. What am I going to say to him at 21 "sorry you can't speak love, but the NHS had you written off and I had to many principals to pay for your treatment". Oh please.

marialuisa, I would love to hear some real evidence for why the GP system shouls be abolished.
This weekend my husband, who is a remote, rural GP, was on call. He spent most of the weeekend looking after a terminally ill elderly man, who died on Sunday evening. Dh was in the house 5 times between Saturday morning and Sunday evening, not including the death certification visit. He gave palliative care to this gentleman, including good pain releif, mouth care (essential in terminal care) and drugs to dry up all the ghastly secretions that cause 'death rattle'. He was able to counsel, comfort and console the family and help them come to terms with death.
As well as this he admitted an elderly lady to a care home as she cold no longer cope at home, helped an alchoholic contact conselling as he had decided to 'dry out', and did 5 other house calls to some of his 1400 patients. Without him there an old lady could still be lying on the floor, a father of 4 would still be drinking, ,several people would have been worried and distressed about their health (and one of the things he did was stitch up a child'shead to save them a 100 mile round trip to casualty), and an old man would have had to die in hospital 45 miles away (if he had survived the journey). We live in a remote, rural area where the hospital is not accesible to many, there is no Sunday public transport, and the GP is the centre of the community (along with the minister).
NHS care, and GP care can be fabulous if it is properly resourced. I would be delighted to hear how you wold replace the GP system. Would you have everyone with a sore throat/cough/sore leg/minor complaint self referring to a specialist or turning up at hospital? How would you co-ordinate care for many cases where there a variety of needs? Who would call on the elderly and housebound who cannot visit a doctor. How would you cope with areas like where we live, where the GP is the only hp available.
Before you are dismissive again of all GP's and demand that the system on which the NHS is built is abolished, think please how things would work without it. I think it would be very hard to find anything which could ever take its place.

And likewise Jimjams, I can't imagine saying to my son at 18, I'm sorry you were relentlessly bullied, utterly miserable and were completely unable to take advantage of your obvious musical talent but despite having all this cash in the bank and a fantastic small, music based independent school on our doorstop, I couldn't send you there because of my principles.

I am not saying that private education and health are the same simply that I don't understand how you can justify one and not the other. Or perhaps I do, could it be because you actually have access to halfway decent state schools????.

As the partner of a higher rate tax payer with private health insurance, I'd have to disagree with you there, Bobbins

I really really do think it's so much more complex than our own personal experiences that there is a world of difference between choosing to go private in a certain circumstance and believing in the NHS.

I think it's a shame that we don't have a system as good as those in other countries in Europe BUT, in most cases that means much higher tax rates for employers and individuals, which has a big impact on their economies, which again, affects us all.
AND, most other systems still have a cost for each doctors visit. Which means that some people still fall off the bottom.

I do worry, too, that some people choose private because they are seduced by the nice environment. Our local NHS hospital is pretty dreadful to look at but the equipment is top notch. I think that's a sensible balancing of priorities.

Ultimately, though, I think the real problem with our system is a sort of denial by politicians. Realistically, I don't think the NHS can or will ever be able to cope with all the demands we make on it. Someone needs to draw a line at some point to ensure we all get good care up to a certain level. Then we can start to create alternative ways of coping with funding the 'extras'. Until someone's prepared to draw that line and make themselves hugely unpopular, the creaking will just keep getting worse.

So custy, can we move the yurt to custardoland?

Croppy I think the worst thing about private NHS and Education is that there are only a certain number of teachers and doctors to go round. So since the higher paid private system and education system have plenty of staff...the state funded ones are CONSTANTLY under-staffed. S0 you are NOT relieving the load on the NHS by having private health, you are making it worse.

I completely understand why people choose to go private..but there's no way anyone can justify that it is better for society as a whole, because its not!

..and while those with all the power and money are going private, there is no incentive for them to improve matters.

I had to sleep on the floor next to my dd when she was in hospital at 4 months old, as there are no beds for parents, this is at one of the top STATE specialist hospitals in London. Meanwhile the ward next door on the SAME floor was a private one. So literally it was turn left for deep plush carpets, parental beds and a la carte...turn right for hard floors, bring your own jars and cold lino.

How can we call ourselves a civilised country!!!

That's scandalous Lil!!! Something is very wrong here!!

Well said, Lil.

susanmt- your husband sounds like a gem but he's operating in very different circumstances to the majority of GPs. I and most other people i know would not go to the doctor for a cough/verruca etc..TBH our visits to GPs have been for referrals to specialists. Haven't got a clue what would replace it, but have been happier with Spanish system of paediatricians for babies etc..Also, have to say that it sounds as if lots of what your DH does is because you are in a rural area with limited access to other healthcare.

Anyway, I'm still incredibly jealous of a consultant radiologist I know who gets £40k p.a. for a 2 day week (9-6)....

Maraluisa, so you think trained educated staff that look after your health..the most important thing we have..should be paid less? why exactly?

croppy - I'm not against private education. I was arguing for it.

The system seemed to work quite well in Japan. You paid a heck of a lot from your pay packet to a compulsary health insurance scheme. The hospitals were not plush (looked very NHS downtrodden) but you were seen quickly and received good treatment. I don;t know what happened to those on low incomes (the welfare state isn't very big in Japan).

I still say to all of you against private health care that you would pay for whatever you could afford to help your child. Or you would fiddle the NHS.

I have a friend who is on income support. Her son desperately needed to see a paediatrician (you guessed it - autistic). She was told a 2 year wait. She contacted someone who is a bigwig in the autism world- who had a word with a paediatrician who slipped him into an NHS clinic in 3 months time. Good luck to her- I'm pleased she got the appointment- I know the stress of wiaitng for something that isn't there.

If you are singing the praises of the NHS you've obviously never had to use it for anything deemed slightly difficult. Come to my house at the end of a really hard week- and tell myself and dh how bloody brilliant the NHS is. Better still look my son in the eye - and tell him it's perfectly oK for him to remain non-verbal because he's not worth treating- becuase that is what the NHS does as far as his verbal dyspraxia goes.

Susanmt- I think some GP's are brilliant. had to use mine this morning (ds1 hadn't peed for 40 hours) and he was very good.

My last GP was very good. Both incidentally are sole practitioners- I'm more than happy with the GO service I've receieved over the last few years.