For those who didn't vaccinate their DC

[Schnullerbacke]

I don't really want to discuss what is right or wrong - I just wanted to hear from Mums that chose not to vaccinate their children and whether you have regretted your decision or not. Or perhaps you have only given some of the vaccines - which one's and why?

I didn't vaccinate my dc's until they were 5 years old....purely because I wanted to make sure their bodies could cope with the vaccines.

gave mine the seperate vaccines as toddlers instead of mmr, because at the time there was all the stuff about autism link.

guess who has 2 autistic children

so then, last year, they had the mmr anyway on recomendation of gp because we thought, oh well, at least we don't have to fear autism!

They (the oldest 3) have now had the MMR and the group of vaccines they were supposed to have at 6 weeks, which I personally find too young especially after DD1 had a very bad reaction to them, I have had them vaccinated on my terms...right or wrong it has worked for us.

My dd (8) has been vaccinated, although has had only 1 lot of mmr.

Ds(5) hasn't had any vaccinations since his 1st lot of baby jabs- he endd up ill in hospital after every set of jabs (3 in total), so I haven't let him have any of the other's.

My Db was one of the 1st to have the mmr vccine and ended up in hospital for 4 weeks with a very bad reaction, it made him regress terribly.

Have discussed it with my Gp, who has been happy to let him not be vaccinated.

I have 6 DCs ranging from 28y to 5y. The older 4 had all the vaccines available at the time. They are all fine with no discernible side-effects. The younger 2 DCs had all vaccinations apart from MMR. (Not because of scaremongering, especially, although one has to wonder? - more due to my resistance to the "herd immunity" thing - why should a vulnerable baby have their immune system messed with in order to eg, protect pregnant women from rubella - can't they look after themselves? Also, I have questions about the value of vaccine immunity which lasts only 5 years - mumps immunity will wear off at age 10/11 - just when we DON'T want our DSs catching mumps) I had planned for them to have the measles vaccine privately, then I read "The Truth about Vaccines" and now I am horrified about the aluminium and mercury in the vaccines, and worry about any/all vaccinations. Almost wish I hadn't read it
What I am sure of is that I don't want to "discuss" it with my GP who has a vested financial interest in fulfilling the Practice quota of vaccinations.

likeafishneedsabicycle - 'protect pregnant women from rubella - can't they look after themselves?'

how exactly?

I gave ds the tetanus, polio and diphteria jabs as those were the ones where the risk/benefit tradeoff made sense to me.

I would do the same with another but a bit later (ds had his vaccines before 12 months - I would wait until after)

Warthog - by testing themselves for immunity and vaccinating themselves if they don't have it when they become sexually active/are ttc.

I think having mercury in vaccinations is asking for trouble.

My dd had MMR 1 but no booster and would have had single injections had I known about this option before the first MMR.

Agree that the government have made it impossible to trust the medical profession due to financial inentives linked to vaccination take up and this is disgraceful.

I am going to delay my dc3s tetnus/polio etc. for a few months as there is a link with early vaccination and asthma (which ds1 has). I won't delay too long though as the diseases are so hideous. My uncle died at 15 months from whooping cough. My dcs have had mmr but I was very reluctant and ds1 was delayed by about a year. I wasn't convinced that the singles would be safer.

Warthog- the nhs recommends that all women who are planning a pregnancy get a rubella immunity test from the GP even if they have been previously vaccinated.

my dd hasnt had all her vaccinations, im still not sure what to do tbh, but my best friend had her little boy jabbed, he went from a perfectly behaved child to an absolute nightmare, he has delayed speech and other problems

warthog - A woman/girl who may become pregnant is an adult/quasi-adult. Their unborn babies are at risk from rubella if the mother does not have acquired or vaccine immunity. I personally think that it is their responsibility to ensure that immunity is in place before embarking on a pregnancy - via a blood test to check immunity and then a vaccine if there is no immunity detected, followed by a 3-month wait for the vaccine effects to clear the system. I do realise that not everyone is in that happy position and that to be exposed to rubella in the early stages of pregnancy would be devastating.
However, I believe that for society to expect that very young children should be vaccinated against, in this case, rubella, in order to protect some adults from being exposed to the virus, is wrong. Many children are not vaccinated against rubella. Belief in "herd immunity" against this disease is misplaced and dangerous.
Please accept that this is my personal view. I do realise that not everyone will agree with me.

My DDs (now 9 & 7) had their baby vaccinations but DD1 did not have whooping cough as DH had a violent reaction to the vaccine as a child ( I never had the vaccine). My GP made a big fuss about the fact that they had to order a special hib vaccine without whooping cough in it. By the time DD2 was vacinated they could not get the vaccine without whooping cough so she had to have it with it.

Neither have had MMR. I strongly believe we are over vaccinating babies and young children and will suffer the consequences at some point.

likeafishneedsabicycle, i do not agree with you, but respect your view.

newpup - your GP is a cheeky sod to make a fuss about having to order a special vaccine - oh dear, he/she has to do a bit of extra paperwork in order to accommodate a nuisance patient.

Likeafish - my thoughts exactly she refused to do it at first until I made a big enough fuss. She was so thrilled to tell me they could no longer do it when I took DD2! You would not believe the abuse she gave me for not taking up the MMR.

We have since moved and changed surgery.

warthog, thank you for your politeness and restraint. My eldest DD, who is a Mumsnetter of several years, told me NEVER, EVER go on a vaccination thread as she said they can get vicious.
It is nice that everyone is supportive and polite on this one so far.
HecateQueenOfGhosts - sorry to hear about the autism despite all your precautions. I guess it sometimes just happens? Despite your I am sure that it is hard work with 2 autistic DCs.

newpup - plug your ears whenever a GP gives you grief about vaccination - we are supposed to trust them to do the best for us and our children - they (individually) earn THOUSANDS of £££s for meeting the Government vaccination quotas. Even if a GP doesn't agree with it, they have to go along with Government policy or face ostracisation/sacking.
I would never trust anyones' opinion when they are being paid to fill a quota.

One of my biggest issues is with all the other preservatives etc that come with the vaccines. Injecting the body with, say, just measles, doesn't actually produce an immune reaction. That's the job of aluminium, which incidentally has now been recognised as potentially being responsible with Alzheimer's.

What I also would like to know is what happens if your children catch measles before they are meant to have the MMR. The first lot of injections for that is 13 months (or something like that). So what happens if they catch it at 8 or 9 months?

mrsdisorganised - did your children catch measles or mumps before they were vaccinated at 5 years?

HecateQueenOfGhosts - would you say that your children were quite healthy by the time they had their vaccinations or were they ill quite often with little bits and pieces? Sorry to hear that the single vaccines didn't make any difference to your children.

Riven - please tell me about your experience with any childhood diseases your kids may have or may not have had.

The other thing I really begrudge is that everyone has their own vested interest in why you should or should not vaccinate. Don't even need to mention the pharma industry. I know that for example measles can come with very bad complications but really, how often does that happen? Does that happen often enough to warrent the potential risks that come with the vaccines?

I would quite like to believe that if your child is healthy, has an active lifestyle and has a robust immune system, then it can deal quite well with measles for example. But again, I cannot get my hands on anything concrete to support that ideology.

Thank you all for having a sensible discussion about this. I know its a hot topic everyone feels strongly about. As I always say, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

"What I also would like to know is what happens if your children catch measles before they are meant to have the MMR. The first lot of injections for that is 13 months (or something like that). So what happens if they catch it at 8 or 9 months?"

If most people vaccinated their children this would be unlikely.

FairyMum - this wasn't my question though. Considering the poor MMR uptake you cannot assume that your very young child will be immune because of others (am not even going into herd immunity). IF measles are THAT bad, we could just vaccinate our children along with the first set of injections. Apparently vaccines are very safe and even young children could be vaccinated with 100+ vaccines at the same time and not have any ill-effects from it (and that quote comes from a DOH scientist).

I probably didn't word it very well but you do know what I mean?

Apparently? That word means "readily understood, clear and obvious" Probably not applicable to vaccination. "100+ vaccines at one time with no ill effects" - Oh, a quote from a DOH scientist - DOH = Department Of Health = Government. Well, that's all right then (NOT!!)
I would not let anyone give me 100+ vaccines as an adult, and they are certainly not coming near any of my children with one of those needles.
OP - please read up on T cells and their role in immunity in children. I could go into it here, but it would be rather lengthy and tedious. Wikipedia gives a concise and readable account.
Yes, measles really can be that bad. A knock-on effect is encephalitis, which can cause brain damage and death. Not that common, but not unknown.

I totally respect anyone's point of view who decides not to vaccinate. there are a few misconceptions around though I think.

• GPs are no longer financially incentivised to vaccinate. In order to meet DOH quotas they only have to show that they have either vaccinated or informed all their patients of the advantages of vaccinations. It's not done on uptake any more.
• There is no thiomersal, which was the form of mercury used, in routine childhood vaccines any more.
• the link between aluminium and Alzheimer's has always been tenuous and disputed, and is looking less and less likely the more research is done into it. there's never been any evidence to link the form of aluminium in vaccines with Alzheimer's [[http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/406 Alzheimer's Society factsheet here].

HTH

"What I also would like to know is what happens if your children catch measles before they are meant to have the MMR. The first lot of injections for that is 13 months (or something like that). So what happens if they catch it at 8 or 9 months?"

Most babies will have a natural immunity due to maternal antibodies. The depletion of antibodies appears to be significantly quicker in babies born to mothers whose immunity was acquired from vaccination rather than from having actual measles. This probably means that the age at which babies are vulnerable to measles, which was thought to be around 13 months is probably lower but it does still exist.

not quite what the OP asked for, but my parents didnt vaccinate ME and I am pretty annoyed about it. I've since "opted in". They didnt even let me get the BCG despite living in London (which I believe has pretty high growth rates of TB).
My opinion about my parent's decision is that they were relying on everyone else vaccinating THEIR children - a very selfish approach, and misguided since many other hippyish parents who had children my age also opted out