For those who didn't vaccinate their DC

[Schnullerbacke]

I don't really want to discuss what is right or wrong - I just wanted to hear from Mums that chose not to vaccinate their children and whether you have regretted your decision or not. Or perhaps you have only given some of the vaccines - which one's and why?

Hi WhatFreshHellisThis
At the time that I was agonising over vaccination - GPs were well doshed up for vaccination quotas. So right now they don't get any money any more. "No longer" were your words. So they were - then. That is all that matters. I don't give a shit what money they get now - they got thousands in the past for meeting the quota, yes?
Thiomersal (mercury) was discontinued in US vaccines in 2002 because of the link to autism.
Sweden discontinued its use in 1989, Denmark in 2002.
The UK waited until 2004 to discontinue vaccines with mercury. Ooh, no - it still keeps on vaccinating with mercury - some 'flu jabs recommended for children with asthma and diabetes
Oh dear, you think I am going to make the obvious link between Alzheimers and aluminium? Think again.
It has been found that, in susceptible people, aluminium from vaccines is not eliminated from the body but remains at the injection site for years. It is known that aluminium is a stimulant for the immune system and appears to "push" the system in an "allergic" or autoimmune direction.
WhatFreshHell - your post sounds like the puppet-speak of the NHS. I hope I'm wrong?

Unwelcome, unless you are in a high risk group/contact, there is no need for BCG. Living in London is not a factor. You sound annoyed about a number of issues. Maybe there is another forum that could help?

StarlightMcKenzie - on balance, that may be a good thing!

Hi Schnuller
In a direct answer to your question -- I stopped vaccinating mine because I believed other mothers. I did not automatically dismiss what other parents said had happened to their children as "anecdotal" or "hysterical" or "paranoid". I trust that most mothers know what is happening or has happened to their children, and if thousands say "I vaccinated my child and x happened" then first, I take it on trust, then I read up about it.

So I stalled vaccinations while I read. I looked at the epidemiological studies the government produced to tell us that MMR and vaccines did not cause autism and quite frankly they were shoddy, useless, easily deconstructed, sometimes funded by the pharmaceutical industry and often too obviously designed to produce a particular result. They were retrospective, or dismissed "confounding factors", or ignored salient facts.

Since then I have come to believe that vaccines are probably a significant factor in many more childhood health problems than autism. In allergies, asthma, chronic auto-immune issues such as ME and CFS, and
sudden infant death syndrome.

You can do the maths on herd immunity, and it doesn't work in a vaccinated population.

What does 95pc immunity mean? Does it mean 100pc of people are 95pc immune, or 95 pc of people are 100pc immune. Why should our children bear the brunt of risk when adults are unprepared to do so? Why are the "experts" so convinced that the cause of the auto-immune and austim epidemics is not the vaccination programme, when they don't know what is?

Why are the parents who say this has happened to their children not taken seriously? Why are they smeared and dismissed and threatened with financial ruin? Why are the children themselves not examined when the parents have volunteered this?

There are only questions and none of them has been answered certainly to my satisfaction.

So that's why. For me.

Schnullerbacke - ds1 was hardy tough as old boots! Never a day's illness.

ds2 was always ill, chest infection after chest infection, cold after cold.

I know why. I quit smoking when I found out I was pregnant with ds1 and never touched one. I had some when pregnant with ds2 and I fucked up his lungs.

Why were you asking about their health? Is there a connection?

Measles was a killer - reading a pamphlet produced for my old primary schools 80th birthday they 'lost' 5 children to measles - this was in the 1950s pre- vaccination - from a very small school. My father in law and father have both lost siblings to measles, my sister was nearly hospitalised from cathing measles (we couldn't be immunised because of an egg allergy).

All 4 DCs fully vaccinated, not without a lot of thought!

Sorry for the sad story Northern. Vaccines are also killers.

I fully vaccinated DS1.
DS2 started the schedule. He had terrible nay catastrophic reaction to the MMR which involved loss of all speech, social skill, toilet trainning etc etc between 18 months and 7 days and about 22 months ( although some stopped imediately - for example he never spoke/babbled again after leaving the Drs surgery )
He obviously has never had another jab. Ds1 will not have any more

I had DD when DS2 was about 8 and DH and i investigated and, based on that info, she has never had any vaccinations at all.
She is six now.
I will probably reluctantly have to do the DTP at some stage although I only want the T part but NHS don't seperate that one.

We think about our decision constantly but I have never felt uncomfortable about it. Her immune system seems as crap as her brothers and I would rather take a chance that she gets a virulent wild virus than that I inject several directly into her body.

Nothing about being a parent is especially easy. This decision is particularly hard. We just all do the best we can for our children.

Living in London is not a factor. You sound annoyed about a number of issues. Maybe there is another forum that could help?
Likeafishneedsabicycle you seem to want to discredit anyone who disagrees with your side of the argument, but your reason for discrediting me makes no sense. My parents did not vaccinate me and I wish they had. That is all my post said and it is a valid and not tainted with "a number of issues". I am one of these unvaccinated children like all the other discussed on here and I wish I wasnt. For HEALTH reasons alone!

that's rubbish about relying on other parents btw

it's nice that you had a choice.. you were an adult, you made a choice! excellent! why deny it to others?

unwelcome if you have answers to any of my questions that would be terrific

am lolling at "wanting to discredit anyone who disagrees with you"

wake up and smell the coffee.. who's doing the discrediting and the smearing without looking at the facts? it isn't this side that's for sure

unfortunately, the choices we make about vaccines DO affect others. that's why it matters.

stuffitllama,i have not heard about any cases of vaccines killing people. can you link to some evidence please?

here

here

here

here

here

here

no research has been done on this?

likeafish - yes, it is very hard work, but i assume ALL parenting is! I am lucky in one respect - both my children have autism, so this is all I know. Having nothing to compare makes it easier I bet. Plus, you just have to get on with it. This is the hand dealt, no sense beating my chest and wailing about it - using time and energy that would be better spent helping my kids!

What do you mean warthog?

There is denial and talk of coincidence, of human error, or bad batches, of preexisting medical conditions and, just, denial. In one case I read about in Borneo, local officials said no proof of vaccination was available because it was traditional to bury medical records with the dead.

It's just information that's out there. Put the pieces together. Who's going to do the research? Who does the research into vaccines? The manufacturers, mainly. Who advises governments on what vaccines are necessary for their populations? The vaccine experts. Who are the vaccine experts? The manufacturers. Are they likely to carry out research which undermines the value of the product. Er probably not. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a statement of the bleeding obvious.

I was never vaccinated as a child due to family health history and as a result I contracted:
measles
mumps
whooping cough
german measles

And that's without all the normal childhood stuff like chicken pox and endless bouts of tonsilitis!

But then I'm 30 and there was a lot more of it around then I guess. I've had my children vaccinated. I was concerned at the time but have never had any regrets over it.

I've had friends who have opted for single vaccines and there are those of us who haven't.

I can't say what's right or wrong, I think you have to do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

because the reality stuffitllama is that there isn't an abundance of cases where deaths immediately point straight to vaccination. because it IS anecdotal. because there are 6 billion people, and if you assume 4 billion are vaccinated, then you'd have a much higher rate of death if there were a direct link. and right now vaccinations are saving more lives than not.

as soon as there is a clear and direct link, i'm sure there will be research. there is no-one on earth who has enough money to fund research when there isn't evidence to warrant it. and unfortunately family of the deceased saying that that's what caused the death isn't actual evidence.

i'm not saying it's right. but i do think that i'd rather have awful diseases eradicated through vaccination than have the diseases.

when they get a vaccine for malaria which has killed millions, do you think people shouldn't have it?

There seems to be a hell of a lot of confusion about the herd immunity/disease eradication issue.

I get tired of being told that not vaccinating against certain diseases means I don't understand the importance of vaccination in disease eradication.

I do - and two of the vaccines I gave ds (diphteria and polio) I did despite the fact that the chances of his getting the diseases are almost nil, as the diseases have been effectively eradicated from where we live. I did it because I have read up and it seemed to me that these diseases do come back when vaccination falls below a given level and they are terrible diseases.

Vaccination cannot eliminate measles. The vaccine is just not effective enough, even in the single form (MMR is less effective still). So whether I vaccinate ds against measles or not is an absolutely individual decision, based on the impact on him. I cannot see the social considerations. Measles will be there, a large enough proportion of vaccinated children will get it to ensure its continuation. The only use of the vaccine is to reduce the probability that the individual child getting the vaccine will contract the disease.

I give up warthog.. you aren't interested until NHS the facts tells you what to think, apparently.

Sorry that's rude, and sharp, and probably unnecessary, but there is so much information out there, so much evidence. You wanted to know about deaths, you didn't know about deaths, I told you about deaths, you aren't interested in deaths. You probably could have written your post before I posted the links. You could have done a quick google yourself but weren't interested enough.

You buy it, basically. And I don't.

stuffitllama, it might be that Warthog, like me, has read around the subject and mistrusts the way MMR-related stories are reported. There is a very good example from Ben Goldacre's Bad Science column here. In case you haven't time to read the whole thing, here's an edited extract:

"On Tuesday, the Telegraph, the Independent, the Mirror, the Express, the Mail, and the Metro all reported that a coroner was hearing the case of a toddler who died after receiving the MMR vaccine, which the parents blame for their loss. ?Toddler ?died after MMR jab?? (Metro), ??Healthy? baby died after MMR jab? (Independent), you know the headlines by now...

"On Thursday, the coroner announced his verdict: that the vaccine played no part in this child?s death. So far, of the papers above, only the Telegraph have had the decency to cover the outcome. The Independent, the Mirror, the Express, the Mail, and the Metro have all decided that their readers are better off not knowing."

yes he said it had happened too soon after the vaccine

but then the coroner had admitted he was a lawyer and not a medical man

read this

she was there

"mistrusts the way mmr stories are reported"

Are you joking? my links apart from the Mail were mostly from local sources, no bias, just what happened. Children dying after being given vaccines. Maybe some of them would have happened anyway, I should think they probably would. But it doesn't even make you THINK?

Deconstruct the rest of the deaths for me, Lio.

Ben Goldacre is a nasty man who wasn't very well brought up. He sneers at families devastated by vaccine damage and encourages others to go onto vaccine damage support forums and upset the parents there.

You have put your trust in a fine old place.

In response to the OP, no I have not vaccinated my child. I thought about it very long and hard, read all I could and researched as much as I could. I found out a lot of things that made me very angry and very sad, but I learned that on balance I would rather not vaccinate. I have not regretted my decision but I have actually lost friends over it ( a nurse!), which is a shame. I do have to defend my decision probably monthly from open mouthed mothers asking me why.
My doctor did say the other day, 'you do know measles and whooping cough are going round here, and children have died, babies have DIED from it don't you??' I said 'yes I know, thanks'.